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Feb 12, 2007 15:20:52 GMT -5
Post by Goddess of Darkness on Feb 12, 2007 15:20:52 GMT -5
As we have been haveing a few 'discussions' about the rules lately, I was wondering what you guys thought of the RAW that seems to be coming into play whether we like it or note.
FOr those who don't know what RAW is:
Rules As Written
I know people that refuse it and people that have turned into RAW lawyers....what is you opinion?
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Feb 12, 2007 17:06:11 GMT -5
Post by Woz on Feb 12, 2007 17:06:11 GMT -5
Word lawyers have always been around, you only start to notice them when you've played a bit and you think you know the rules. Then you meet people who read the rulebook every night before they go to bed and know the exact wording to every rule (even all the codex rules).
The funny thing is that they remember all the rules that help them win but if I forgot something they don't bother to remind me. That annoys me more then anything. If my mates forget something then I remind them even if it's to my disadvantage like "They've got assault weapons so they can still shoot" then I kick myself as a watch one of my squads get blown away.
I don't think it's fun to win just because I know the rules better then my opponent.
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Feb 12, 2007 22:45:28 GMT -5
Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Feb 12, 2007 22:45:28 GMT -5
I like understanding the rules as written. that is the basis of how fairness and balance is acheived in 40k. each army is made of a collection of rules that when added together with all the other armies rules and the core rules results in the fair, balanced game of warhammer 40k. alot of people are laughing because they don't believe warhammer 40k is fair OR balanced, but regardless of this or not, the intent of the rules being balanced is always something that GW strives for. since it can be assumed that GW writes rules that are made for their fairness and recreation of what is realistic, knowing the rules as written is important to me. I apply the rules as written to myself to as pure a digree as possible. if the codex says I can do something then I allow myself to do it. if the codex doesn't say I can't do something, then I know I can do that too. when it comes to my opponents, my view of the rules is totally different. I err on the side of realism. like when a wave serpent flies across the battlefield at me and my opponent asks 'can I cast fortune on my squad of striking scorpions that the farseer is riding with in the wave serpent?' the book says no, he can't but why not?? realistically speaking the farseer is sitting there staring at the whole squad of striking scorpions inside the wave serpent. I will allow my opponent to do something that is 100% realistic but 100% illegal anyday. I don't however, extend this graciousness of rules interpretation to myself. I enjoy being as hard on myself as possible because it only serves to enhance my reputation when I battle at the local club as a resourceful commander with flawless tactical execution (on a good day ). it's always nice to have good habits and not rely on your opponents concessions to bring you victory. rules as written are important to me. I'd rather be weaker but 100% perfect on my application of the rules than stronger than I actually should be because inevitably (and especially at tournaments) you're gonna battle against that rules lawyer and it's always good to get high scores from him because you knew your rules, even the quirky rare ones that people typically fudge on. I do like allowing my opponents to fudge on the rules when it's good for the realism factor though. I think you were more talking about someone taking a single line of rules out of context and trying to justify it allowing something illegal by how the sentence is worded than what I was writing about above. I think rules as written when taken in context is good. you get ALL the rules as written about a certain subject and try to discern how GW intended the rules to be applied based on all the info. I can't stand someone trying to justify something broken and illegal because it doesn't say you can't in one sentence but then in the next sentence says something that makes it clear the rules don't intend for anything like that to be done via the rule. the space wolf codex has some really bad spots in it, especially regarding the wolf guard and wolf guard battle leader. people try to give wolf guard battle leaders lascannons and crazy stuff like that and it just makes me slap my forehead and shake my head.
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Feb 14, 2007 16:33:55 GMT -5
Post by Woz on Feb 14, 2007 16:33:55 GMT -5
I knew a guy who used to good through all the GW forms looking for wording loopholes that'll make his armies better. He'd even print them out and bring them to games incase I questioned them. Playing was just one long headache but thankfully he doesn't play anymore.
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Feb 14, 2007 21:55:22 GMT -5
Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Feb 14, 2007 21:55:22 GMT -5
I just wouldn't play him. there's a guy like that in my area and I just stay away there's plenty of good players that are looking to enjoy a battle.
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Feb 15, 2007 11:46:43 GMT -5
Post by dethklok on Feb 15, 2007 11:46:43 GMT -5
I understand i played a 1000 point game with someone like that and it took 5 hours And i think the best idea is just to be a good sportsmen whether or not the situation to our advantage.
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Feb 15, 2007 14:05:59 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2007 14:05:59 GMT -5
RAW can have some appropriate moments though. For instance, RAW, Necrons can We'll Be Back from weapons of Str 9 & 10. Lascannons and Railguns just blow little holes through the Warrior, which it can easily repair. Autocannons, Plasma Guns, ect just rip limbs off, which can be easily reattached. But Krak missiles and Meltaguns are just the right ammount of force: the first scatters the 'Cron across the landscape so widely that he can't pull himself back together in time for the fight, the second reduces him to a little bubbly pool of slag.
Of course, if any Necron player tried to pull this in a game on me...
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Feb 15, 2007 21:16:35 GMT -5
Post by Woz on Feb 15, 2007 21:16:35 GMT -5
But thats a basic rule. The RAW people tend to find things that go against the spirit of the game but as it's been (mis)printed in black and white then it must be so. Like TB says with the spacewolf codex.
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Feb 17, 2007 5:05:53 GMT -5
Post by sammy1979 on Feb 17, 2007 5:05:53 GMT -5
raw is such a touchy subject personaly i play to have fun if some one wants to drag it out because the only way that people can win is by technical legal wrangling then whats the point in them turning out. i like the statement in the codex on page 5 "the most important rule" after all isn't that the whole point why we do this?
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Feb 17, 2007 7:53:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2007 7:53:04 GMT -5
Woz: Sometimes I wish all players were as helpful as you, I know if someone forgets something even as huge as their shooting phase I never let it slip.
Turtleboy: Although you may think things are unrealistic in that people can't do them, often the case is the people who made the game do determine what's right and wrong. I can say, look here, you are shooting at these guys on the ruins, but in real life they'd all be hiding out of view. Bad example, but do you see where i'm coming from? It can be good to accept realism and use it, but really its just undermining a rule system that has been cut and changed and improved for 20 or so years, I just like to stick by the rules as written, as that's why they are there. You don't just say "Oh, look here, it says here beware of the dog but realistically I am a human, I AM the foodchain. FEAR ME, ROTTWEILER!". Its really not going to do you or the system any favours.
Ok, finished being a narc, who wants ginger snaps?
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Feb 17, 2007 19:58:22 GMT -5
Post by Goddess of Darkness on Feb 17, 2007 19:58:22 GMT -5
Well...we have a fool proof system that works on rules that we can't find an understanding with and that is .....a roll of the dice. Just like flipping a coin but with a dice. Then after the game is finished we ring games work shop and find out the rule....that way it doesn't disturb the game and keeps it flowing. As for raw....if you can come to an agreement than all good but if you can than roll a die to see who gets the benefit of the doubt
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Apr 11, 2007 23:29:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2007 23:29:55 GMT -5
I feel following the rules is important. but not misreading or reinterpreting them for an advantage. basicaly if it ruins the fun of the game by argueing then forget it
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