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Post by nutty on Oct 22, 2017 16:18:14 GMT -5
The commissar bit is a pretty big change... I mean GW is GW and all, but that just feels sloppy to me. Sure it keeps people from abusing conscripts. But this has a pretty big impact on the rest of the codex. I kind of wish they'd just slap a 0-1 tag on conscripts and be done with it.
Not sure what the clarificstion to the laurels of command really does: don't all the orders state 'untill the end of the phase' or 'this phase'? So how would resolving the the first order before issuing the second have an impact?
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Oct 22, 2017 16:22:58 GMT -5
The commissar bit is a pretty big change... I mean GW is GW and all, but that just feels sloppy to me. Sure it keeps people from abusing conscripts. But this has a pretty big impact on the rest of the codex. I kind of wish they'd just slap a 0-1 tag on conscripts and be done with it. Not sure what the clarificstion to the laurels of command really does: don't all the orders state 'untill the end of the phase' or 'this phase'? So how would resolving the the first order before issuing the second have an impact? Agree about the conscripts. Alternatively, call 'em Auxilia, but whatever. I think this is also to counter combined squads a bit, but you're spending CP for that and can only shuffle one squad into another once per turn. As for Laurels of Command, I'm not sure, since I wasn't paying much attention to the argument about it. I felt the RAI was pretty clear...
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Post by StillANoob on Oct 22, 2017 19:39:55 GMT -5
I absolutely cannot believe how they have destroyed Commisars. Ridiculous over complication of the rules, which will see Commisars, ome of the most iconic amd useful tools in a Guard players arsenal, sidelined. Typical GW, taking a bloody sledgehammer to a situation that needs duct tape. All you had to do was say " Conscript orders only work on a 4+. Furthermore, when they fail a morale check within 6" of a Commisar, remove one model and re roll the dice, excluding the slain model for purposes of the morale check." Bam. Done. You shut up all these whiney people who can't fathom that taking anti horde weapons is essential in this edition and want GW to change the rules for it.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Oct 22, 2017 20:21:17 GMT -5
I think you're getting a bit carried away. First of all, Commissars are still disgustingly cheap so it's not like you're paying a large tax for a poor buff. Second, morale is one of the key anti-horde mechanicus in the game. To have one of the most effective horde armies be able to negate that that so cheaply was a problem. Orks are the only other ones I can think of who can do it, and that's A) per unit, not an aura, and B) you have to pay at LEAST twice as much per unit to do it. There was a genuine problem there, and even with the squad size and order nerfs, Conscripts were still extremely effective, and got a net buff thanks to the powerful regimental doctrines they gained.
I'd also point out that packing anti-horde is easier for some armies (Guard, for example) than it is for others. The issue with conscripts was that you had to direct an inordinate amount of firepower to shift them. That's a problem when your stuff is cheap, but if you're one of at least half the armies in the game that are "elite" in nature (Eldar, any stripe of Marine, etc), that hurts even more. You simply don't have many units to spare, and what you do have usually can't or shouldn't be specialized to the degree necessary to wipe out swarms of conscripts, especially when they're backed up by such a diverse array of other units that you need to counter and specialize for (Tough CC infantry, snipers, solid medium tanks, deep strikers, flyers, heavy tanks) that can be taken in large quantities as well. Basically, the problem ends up being magnified.
I agree they overdid it a bit, but the codex is so full of so much good, cheap stuff that I don't think it's much of an issue.
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Post by nutty on Oct 23, 2017 5:06:51 GMT -5
I don't know.. personally I've never used conscripts, but often had a commissar or two to back-up my infantry squads. With the new rules the reasons for including them are 80% fluff and 20% "who knows it might do something".
Morale tests start getting 'scary' to me once you loose 4 guys (out of 10) in a turn. Blowing up a 5th guy so you can go fishing for 3's is not much of a deal in my eyes, and it only gets worse the turn after or if more than 4 guys died.
The thing that urinate me off is that it's "because of conscripts"... in my eyes the ability was balanced for all but one unit in the codex. Rather than adress that one unit, they decided to half-ass a solution that impacts the rest of the codex far more severely than Conscripts themselves.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Oct 23, 2017 13:40:06 GMT -5
Speaking of nerfs, just as a public service announcement, I would not bank on spamming astropaths or Imperial assassins as a viable strategy for much longer.
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Post by StillANoob on Nov 6, 2017 6:33:01 GMT -5
I don't dosagree there was an issue there. I disagree with what they did. The Commisar was part of the problem, yes. But here's a few better ways to fix it. To keep Commisars a possibility.
First thing they ever should have done was 0-1 Conscripts. Full stop there. Then the unit size drop was a good idea too, maybe then paired with a points increase to both parts of the problem? Change the wording of the Commisars aura to affect One unit at a time? Or to give you a choice whether or not you executefor a re roll? Or make the new faq rules for the Commisar aura to affect conscipts only?
It just upsets me that they do things like this. Knee jerk reactions that don't feel thought out or fair. If they want to charge me as much damn money as they do (Australia here) then I feel like we deserve better service. Plus I really want Imperial Guard to be top teir ðŸ˜ðŸ˜‚ The Hammer of the God-Emperor should be brutal!
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Post by nutty on Nov 6, 2017 11:19:05 GMT -5
We still are pretty brutal though What amazed me is that they are doing the same flipping thing with gaunts.. big blobs of cheap models that, you guessed it, ignore morale. You'd think they atleast look at what is going wrong/right with other codices before launching a new one. Conscripts where never my thing, so everytime they mess up a codex or rulespack this way I get ticked off.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jan 15, 2018 20:48:40 GMT -5
I don’t know what I’m going to do without my demolition charges. And I was so looking forward to blatting away with the new plasma rules in a drive-by from a Chimera. Can’t do that anymore. Elysian have a Breacher Charge but it’s for close combat only. So sad ...
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Post by nutty on Jan 16, 2018 4:24:14 GMT -5
I don’t know what I’m going to do without my demolition charges. And I was so looking forward to blatting away with the new plasma rules in a drive-by from a Chimera. Can’t do that anymore. Elysian have a Breacher Charge but it’s for close combat only. So sad ... You can use the SWS/veterans from the index and still take a demo charge. It's a weird system, but it is mentioned you are allowed to do it somewhere in the FAQ/Erratas. Same for using roughriders and some other options that didn't make it into the codex.
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Post by that1guy on Jan 16, 2018 21:59:19 GMT -5
So being a bits'n'pieces regiment I can use all of these doctrine as long as I stop mixing my Cadians with my Valhallans & my Free Guild handgunner's with my Jungle fighters?
Man! I just started painting my 50 man conscript blob... & collected 10 more 5 man boxes of guardsmen with that sculpt where they all look terrified in complete horror. Going to pretend like I didn't hear this and go back to happily painting my conscript blobs because if I worried about what was competitive in the new codex's I would never get any painting done.
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Post by nutty on Jan 17, 2018 3:10:38 GMT -5
So being a bits'n'pieces regiment I can use all of these doctrine as long as I stop mixing my Cadians with my Valhallans & my Free Guild handgunner's with my Jungle fighters? Man! I just started painting my 50 man conscript blob... & collected 10 more 5 man boxes of guardsmen with that sculpt where they all look terrified in complete horror. Going to pretend like I didn't hear this and go back to happily painting my conscript blobs because if I worried about what was competitive in the new codex's I would never get any painting done. You can only have one doctrine per detachment, but you can use several detachments alongside each other and each can use it's own doctrine. As for painting conscripts.. you'd might as well: in the worst case scenario you can still use them as regular guardsmen.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jan 17, 2018 8:42:47 GMT -5
I don’t know what I’m going to do without my demolition charges. And I was so looking forward to blatting away with the new plasma rules in a drive-by from a Chimera. Can’t do that anymore. Elysian have a Breacher Charge but it’s for close combat only. So sad ... You can use the SWS/veterans from the index and still take a demo charge. It's a weird system, but it is mentioned you are allowed to do it somewhere in the FAQ/Erratas. Same for using roughriders and some other options that didn't make it into the codex. So I’ve been told but I used to love flinging them from ter top hatch of the Chimeras. Like monkeys flinging poop. We can’t even throw an order from them now (or maybe we can in the index, I don’t know, I sold mine on ebay when the codex emerged).
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Post by cheminhaler on Jan 17, 2018 10:52:53 GMT -5
You can still fling them in 7th.... And then the blast marker bounces back onto your chimera. Job done! ;-)
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Post by nutty on Jan 17, 2018 12:54:51 GMT -5
The Chimera got hit pretty hard by 8th edition, I guess they want to sell more shorbusses
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Post by RedCuffs on Jan 17, 2018 20:12:07 GMT -5
You can still fling them in 7th.... And then the blast marker bounces back onto your chimera. Job done! ;-) I remember that happening once. My mate wazzed his pants laughing. The blast just clipped the front armour. Then he rolled a 1. Then I wazzed my pants.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jan 17, 2018 20:15:13 GMT -5
The Chimera got hit pretty hard by 8th edition, I guess they want to sell more shorbusses By Shorbus I assume you’re referring to the Taurox. GW could have easily got it to be a top seller ... All they had to do was make not look so crap.
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Post by nutty on Jan 18, 2018 3:43:09 GMT -5
The Chimera got hit pretty hard by 8th edition, I guess they want to sell more shorbusses By Shorbus I assume you’re referring to the Taurox. GW could have easily got it to be a top seller ... All they had to do was make not look so crap. Yeah.. I missed a 't' there Honestly, If the kit came with the option for wheels (like the ones on the rockcrusher) I would probably have half a dozen already. But right now I feel as though I'm being forced to buy €10-€15 third party kits to make a ~€40 vehicle look like something I'd want to use.
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Post by cheminhaler on Jan 18, 2018 6:48:56 GMT -5
The GC Goliath is heresy! You must love Taurox! You must buy Taurox!
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Post by RedCuffs on Jan 18, 2018 9:22:32 GMT -5
The GC Goliath is heresy! You must love Taurox! You must buy Taurox! Sorry Chem ... The Taurox is minging. These are what I’ll be using as proxy Taurox. Obviously only half way done. The automated turret has to be lowered halfway somewhat and will have TL Auto Cannon. They’ll have a cadian crew but will be the transport for my 4th (Cruiser Infantry) Wing. They’ll be using Tallarn models based on French Foreign Legion of North Africa / Indochina. Kind of stalling however with how to suspend the roof, Building up the armour around the weapon operators platform and whether to mount the wheels as high or low mount suspension. Which wheel mounting do you guys thing looks better ?
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Post by that1guy on Jan 18, 2018 11:04:18 GMT -5
Well RedCuff, I think they both look great. The lower profile suspension looks sleek, well fit but it bother's me because I myself am an automotive enthusiast. It's more of a sports car suspension, most of us are well aware this isn't the ideal set up for an off road, rough terrain suspension system.
The high mounted are also good looking in the sense that it's hard to choose between the two. The only thing that turns me off about the high mount is the one looks less than symmetrical... to which I would recommend adding a little mud, dirt & grit to those tires, on the edge of the wheel wells and fender's. Off road vehicles wheels become less than symmetrical when they are used off road, which is exactly what they were engineered for.
I just feel like some mud & dirt applied to the right area's of your conversion (even in just a "less is more sense") will take the eye away from the mount you are concerning yourself with and redirect our optical attention into the details of the model.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jan 18, 2018 12:20:36 GMT -5
Yeah the low mount looks sleek, like the APC in Aliens. Or good for urban combat. But I suppose if they’re going to be cruising expansive deserts the high level suspension would be more appropriate. I’ve weathered the tyres as far as I’d want to go as I’m sure you know that the amount of desert dust that sticks to the vehicle doesn’t build up more than a bit of a skin. Unless it suddenly wazzes down. I’ll apply this effect inside the wheel arches and maybe in the lower nooks and crannies around the hull, probably a slightly greater build up on the rear. Come to think of it, while looking at the model, the dusty weathering should probably go all over.
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Post by cheminhaler on Jan 18, 2018 13:01:14 GMT -5
Oh yeah I forgot that you can assemble the suspension in two ways; but isn't that normally something to do with the equipment loadout; i.e. the guntruck variant sits higher and the transport full of bombs has the lower suspension?
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Post by RedCuffs on Jan 18, 2018 14:03:23 GMT -5
The loadout doesnt matter as they’ll be cutting about as Taurox. So it’s just the asthaetic I have to worry about. I’ll model them with armoured shutters raised as if the transported unit could shoot their weapons from the troop compartment. Even though they can’t rules wise so that’ll simply be an aesthetic as well.
To fully equip my 4th Cruiser Infantry I’ll need 16 of them.
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Post by that1guy on Jan 18, 2018 14:12:49 GMT -5
I would like to see one converted into a half-track, Maybe using 2 out of the 4 tracks provided in the Turox kit. I've just been in the mood for half tracks. "Guys I've got a fever, and the only prescription, is some half tracks!"
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