|
Post by padaxes on Dec 14, 2018 6:56:58 GMT -5
Hi guys, I am wondering whether the FFTE order gives a -1 to hit to ordinary weapons? Also if you give the order can you then shoot with heavy weapons? The main reason I'm asking is I'm converting up a unit of shotgun armed vets with 3 meltas in them and wonder is it worth giving the order to allow a heavy flamer to shoot. I personally think it should be an assault weapon anyway as it strikes me as a weapon that is essentially point and shoot shouldn't need much setting up like a heavy bolter or autocannon would. thanks for any guidance.
|
|
|
Post by nutty on Dec 14, 2018 8:15:47 GMT -5
The order allows you to fire after advancing 'as if it only[ moved in the movement phase'.
So if we take your unit of veterans as an example:
If they move normally; everyone fires at regular ballistic skill, except for the Heavy Flamer which would be at a -1 (because it is a heavy weapon that has moved) but this is ignored because it auto-hits.
If they advance: all the models with assault weapons (shotguns & meltas) can fire at -1 to hit, the Heavy Flamer is not allowed to shoot at all as it is a heavy weapon.
If you order the unit FFTE; all the models with assault weapons can fire at their regular ballistic skill, and the Heavy Flamer can fire (at a theoretical -1 to hit) despite the fact that the unit has advanced.
So for your planned unit it would definitely be worth it to order FFTE, as it not only allows the heavy flamer to fire after advancing, it also ignores the to hit penalty for advancing & shooting with shotguns & meltaguns. If instead of a Heavy Flamer you would take, for example, a heavy bolter; it would be allowed to fire after moving or FFTE, but not after making a regular advance move.
Hope that clears things up
|
|
|
Post by padaxes on Dec 14, 2018 11:56:16 GMT -5
Yea that all seems pretty straight forward now thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Dec 14, 2018 13:10:11 GMT -5
The order allows you to fire after advancing 'as if it only[ moved in the movement phase'. That's not correct. The rule states "The ordered unit can shoot this phase even if it Advanced in its Movement phase.". It doesn't actually remove the -1 to hit with assault weapons. If you order the unit FFTE; all the models with assault weapons can fire at their regular ballistic skill, and the Heavy Flamer can fire (at a theoretical -1 to hit) despite the fact that the unit has advanced. So for your example, you would get -1 to hit with the shotguns. If you had a weapon such as pistols or rapidfire, they would get no modifier. A bit of an oddity in the rule but unfortunately that's how they are written. I use the same unit, 3x melta and shotguns, although I don't use the heavy flamer. What I recommend is using Tallarn. Their doctrine lets you shoot any weapon, other than heavy, after advancing. They also get to ignore the -1 for assault weapons. Of course, this would make heavy flamers useless but have the advantage of allowing you to do a different order, such as take aim. This really depends on your doctrine choice though. Another thing you could do would be to use lasguns instead of shotguns for your squad, to avoid the -1.
|
|
|
Post by nutty on Dec 15, 2018 4:21:41 GMT -5
Trickstick : you're right, I somehow got part of the order mixed up. I was thinking it was better than the Elysian variant (that turns all weapons into the assault type) because it allowed assault weapons to shoot without the modifier. But clearly that was a combination of wishful thinking and poor memory.
|
|
|
Post by padaxes on Dec 15, 2018 19:14:22 GMT -5
So really the best weapons to use with the order is lasguns and plasmas? Now that vets are now less points that they were in the chapter approved I will be able to field a third vet squad. I generally use catachan as my model collection is almost exclusively them. I also like their doctrine, probably not the best but I love the strength increase and rerollable heavy weapon random shots.
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Dec 15, 2018 19:36:58 GMT -5
Yeah, lasguns and plasma work well with the order. A plasma pistol on the sergeant works well too, if you are planning to get within 12". I'm not quite sure how well foot veterans advancing will do, as I have never tried it myself. You may need to be careful that they are not just shot off the board, they die as easily as normal Guardsmen after all. If the worst thing happens, and you really don't like the tactic, lasgun and plasma models will always be useful. Shotguns are a bit more niche, I know mine are often left on the shelf unless I want to try something weird like an ambush.
|
|