What are we going to do about orks

[The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A)]

ordanance! template weapons! heavy bolters + autocannons!

[Deleted]

WAAAGh.....stormboys are ownage when getting first turn....those skinnies are a pain. They can move 12 fleet a d6 and charge another 6 which potentially means a first turn assault!!! Plus we can see a lot more dakka in their arsenal such as the kilkannon and shock attack gun....which can be a bit on the edge when facing them....but like what you guys said....numbers and extensive use of firepower goes along way in taking down that ork waaagh...=D

[Deleted]

remember though that whaags cant happen on the first turn. which is what it seems like you added in there.

[sammy1979]

red paint jobs must be avoided there very upsetting

[Deleted]

well just have to use tracers there still red

[Rolling Thunder]

Or just deepstrike your entire army. Single most unnerving doctrine in the entire game.

[sammy1979]

dude thats just wrong deep strike into orks, have you played the ork new rules they would shred you apart, take as many iron discipline, warrior weapons etc as you like but a guardsman against a ork in CC is a one way ticket to the throne, stay away infact stay as far away on the board as possible. use hell hounds and ogryns to keep them off you. then bassalisc them into the next world. and any that do get through get some auto cannons on them, there trucks have a totally new seperate damage chart, and a red paint job means they can move extra, and still do the shooting and the deploying, also as all orks can fire out of the trucks it gets real messy, and the new gazskul rules make him v hard to stop, infact the best way to stop him is blow the truck up he's in, then use a demolisher just for him!

[Deleted]

The problem with shooting Ork Trukks nowadays is that they can use their special rules to avoid becoming entangled should the trukk become destroyed or blow up.

What's worse is the "Kareen" rule could potentially allow an ork trukk to run headlong into your line, then divulge its troops in CC range.

Then again, it could allow it to run right off the board. While the Orks have the potential for badassitude, it's balanced by the randomness of said badassitude. Look at the rules for the Shokk Attack Gun.

Any assaulty army- even the new orks- you do two things:

Shoot the transports dead.

Shoot the contents of those transports dead.

Work up the line of your heavy weapons. Don't just use your battle cannons the first time. If you work up from heavy bolters-> krak grenades-> autocannons-> missile launchers-> lascannons, you can most likely use your battle cannon/sponsons to pie-plate and obiliterate the disgorged contents of the transport(s) you just killed.

If you do things right and the Dice Gods favor you, you'll be able to concentrate your fire when the footsloggers get close, allowing you to cut their numbers until you're able to make them actually roll for their morale.

[knight (M.I.A)]

Two words: HEAVY BOLTERS

Best in masses. Those things make every ork a nice little piece of Swiss cheese. And for those who say they have no punch for Mega Armour: It doesn't matter. With 20 Heavy Bolters you force so many saves that every ork in big armour will fail sooner or later and most don't have a save against them anyways

[Rolling Thunder]

Why is it that every noob solution to the IG's problems consists of the 'sit back and shoot' approach. While I appreciate most of you have some sort of effectiveness- related obssesion (which is strange for a bunch of people choosing to play the most neglected and unblaancedly bad army in the game) let me iterate one thing here. No, I have not seen the new ork codex, if by seen you mean 'read through entirely in GW while the staff weren't watching', but to get back to my venom-spewing rant I seriously think that if you knock any of my ideads again before trying them out I will hunt you down and see that you enjoy a quick visit to the mortuary.

[Deleted]

Honey, I believe if you eat this Midol, you might not BAWWWWWWWW quite so much!

She growled at me. I had to hide it in a piece of cheese.

Lrn2calm.

[sammy1979]

"noob" you cheeky wee scamp i've done guard for 17 years, now from RT had a break during 3rd edition, all i hear about theses days is "deepstrike this, CC that" you do that against ork you get dead real quick, i've played and aquired a new rule book, and ork got tough again, and as to the afore mentioned stand at the back and shoot, tactic it is the age old tried and tested exsisted through all the editions of 40k method for guard to win! its how the whole army is set up big gunz and lots of troops.
if you want to get all deep strike and CC crazy, go play smurfs.

guard is for shooting!

[knight (M.I.A)]

Sammy do you know that we actually have a better chance against marines in CC than with shooting?
And the chances to fight against orks with controlled CC is a valid and good option.
And Sammy calling someone a noob isn't nice and can be considered as an insult even if I have to say that Thunder overreacted. Most of us are adults and we should behave like that. And insulting someone just because he prefers different tactics than yourself it is childish, regardless how long you have been playing 40k and IG.

As for me I've been getting some good results with IG in CC and some Guard players who have sworn on CC and deepstriking saved my butt more than once, even if it isn't my preferred tactic. And unfortunately stand and shoot doesn't work all the time. Try that once against a Tyranid horde army. You'll shoot one or two turns, before your army is dead or bound in CC. And those who're not bound in CC are standing behind the CCs and have blocked LoS. You have to learn when and how to move to use your troops. Just look at the real world. There are reasons why the statics defense doctrine (trench warfare) was replaced by more offensive and more flexible combat doctrines.
I can also tell you to watch "Broken Arrow" one time just for one quote. Someone in there says that combat is a highly flexible and complex situation. You plan ahead and think about your opponents reactions. You keep the initiative and you don't give it away and if you don't move you give away your initiative and you give your enemy a good chance to take over the battle and dictate you the conditions of the battle.

[Rolling Thunder]

I apologise to all those I may have offended.

And I apologise to all those I am now about to offend.

I have played the IG for the past five years, and have been playing 40K for another three before that (Eldar). I have found that it seems most tactics used by 40K players to be cripplingly unimaginative and makes them prone to being easily overun. I switched from Eldar not because I wanted to remain immobile, but because I wished to collect a highly charecterful army that I could mold to my tastes. And I am tired of seeing fellow guard players being wiped out by players who know exactly what they have to do to break a static gunline- its the easiest thing to do for the opponent, and the hardest thing to do for the guardsman. So yes I advocate tactics you might think of as silly. But they are not as silly as sitting with your collective backsides to the board edge and praying to god that you can kill enough of your enemies before they wipe you out.

Sit-back-and-shoot simply does not work any more. Even at my wargames club -where nobody had played 40K before, the people there knew instinctively how to break a static gunline. So continue with your antiquated tactics. The French did in 1940, and look what happened to them. But do not try to stifle innovation just because you dislike changing the formula for which you have used so long.

By the way- deepstrike doe not mean 'close combat'. Mostly it means 'demo charge and meltagun'

[knight (M.I.A)]

I agree with you completely Thunder. Combat doctrines changed in the real world and the 40k world. It might have started with stand 'n' shoot, but now you need to react and adapt your tactics to the situation (enemy, terrain, own troops). Combat is highly flexible and by just standing and shooting you give away your advantages.
But everyone needs to get his own tactic. For some the sand and shoot might work, for others not while they need more mobile tactics, which might be the worst working for the third...

[Deleted]

I agree. Sitting back and just unloading your weapons is not going to work alone. In my opinion, Hellhounds, Leman Russes, and Basilisks would help do some serious damage. But they need to be moving. Otherwise, the Orks will just close in on them and completely and utterly destroy them. It is at this point that i don't wonder if one should stock up on conscript platoons to distract the orks, WHILE your ordanance does the heavy damage. And it's not like the conscripts would get killed first turn, and they might even get lucky, because it is as Commisar said: Those lasguns can really add up.

[kyron]

I use the "T-tatic" against horde armies along with Iron Disipline and Die Hards. And they have won the battle for me more times than "stand and shoot" has. As Knight mentioned. You do have a better chance to survive in CC against for example SM. And that because they only get 1 attack and you get to use your save. Other wise they would get 2 attacks and your you would only get holes in your flank...

Just remember not to charge with all of your officers and make sure that your Standard is in the thick of it.

[Deleted]

After several games against the new orks I have decided the best way to kill them is to use flamers. Even better is deep striking flamers in behind them. Then the choice in do i turn around and kill the flamers and take an extra turn to get to the main battle line or do I keep going and take a huge death toll on my way there.

[lordcastellenjon]

I've found that a mixture of tactics can bring great rewards latley in 3000pt apoc games I use my 2 demols and baneblade as mobile slogers to spread the death around where my HQ HW and mine infentry stay in a overlaping FOF formation in the tarien in my DZ my chimer will mnove to the middle and disgorge my vetrens then my kaskrin drop in next to them they then take up a forward fier postion to help whilst my chimer rsues in to cause some nice chaos with all of its weapons (HB HS ML and its HM) and last time i was rewarded with it blowing up and taking a whole squad of marines with it but like I said I found this tactick to use a 3 tank stroung roling power blast to hit there big stuff and a take the middle tactic can realy help as for CC I use 2 of my 3 HQ squads for that as the 3rd has my free stylin pistol wielders in there 4 bolt pistols 3 plasma pistols and 1 powersword... who said IG suck will have to post them up