Oztoon
Captain
Peace? There cannot be peace in these times
Posts: 193
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Post by Oztoon on Jul 10, 2007 7:33:24 GMT -5
Why does everyone dis. the Catachans. I ask because i'm thinking about starting and i don't see anything really that wrong except for their armour save. So if anyone could help me with this i would be extremly greatful.
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Post by Mabus on Jul 10, 2007 10:06:50 GMT -5
There are a hundred reasons why I think Catachans are crap. They have no armour, save sentinels of course. They have rubbish armour saves, no Lascannons and are crap at everything but jungle warfare. Although on a jungle board these guys are awsome! I also think the models look like a bunch of men from a gay bar! I do like a few of the models in the range though. Especially the juinior officers and demo pack guys.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2007 17:05:23 GMT -5
Yeah, for the most part they're too muscled and shirtless for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2007 22:24:53 GMT -5
If you use the Deathworld Vet rules they suddenly become a lot more desirable. I play Deathworld Vets and they are a very interesting army. Anyway in the jungle there are no other tanks apart from walkers so why would you have Lascannons, and they actually get a very good save in the jungle. Personnely i think they look cool because they were based on Vietnam guerrilla fighters and the models certainly betray the look of hardbitten veterens which offer tremendous modelling potential.
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Post by thefishki345 on Jul 10, 2007 23:01:23 GMT -5
yes, catachans look really cool i reckon, but LOL "they look like they were in a gay bar"
when I was buying the start of my cadian army on ebay I was gonna change from cadian to catachans from seeing the front cover of the box set they look really cool even though there armour save is no good, their battleforce is better aswell.
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Post by BobaHat on Jul 24, 2007 14:13:18 GMT -5
They certainly provide better conversion-possibilities than Cadians. I only use Catachan bits (and a zillion other GW bits) in my Convict Regiment army.
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Post by fatuous on Jul 25, 2007 7:21:59 GMT -5
The armour save makes very little difference IMO.
When does a guardsman get a save any way? WHen he's in cover.
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Post by Mabus on Jul 25, 2007 15:10:19 GMT -5
Hey, I use carpace armour. I understand what you guys are saying, I still think they are great on a jungle board but how many people actually use a jungle board regulaly? I am going to take a lot of persuading.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2007 6:46:40 GMT -5
Although i like them the problem with the Deathworld Vets army list is that the rules are still based on 2nd Ed and this is a huge disadvantage. Example, well say you play against an Elder or Tau army and their skimmers decide to 'fly high', Catachans suddenly become decomposing flesh lumps on the forest floor. No Lascannons really suck. Many armies also have specialist light infantry that are great for fighting in dense terrain like Kroot and Pathfinders.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jul 30, 2007 7:44:10 GMT -5
Flying high with a skimmer is deadly against Deathworld vets. Suddenly everyone from everywhere can shoot at the skimmer and most of the time the skimmer is unable to shoot back because it can't draw any LoS.
You don't need lascannons anyway. I don't use them most of the time. I only have one mounted in a LR MBT and a AT squad with them in my Regarian regiment. Everywhere else I use Meltaguns and Missile Launchers as they're far more versatile.
Even the Kroot or Pathfinders have problems to match the abilities of Catachans in jungle terrain. Catachans can move faster in jungle and look at greater distance then most other units. So you could have the problem that you're getting shot while your troops are unable to return fire (aka 6" vs 12" problem).
So the biggest problem with Catachans are their looks. Their muscle are far to unrealistic and ugly. Also most of their faces look like as they have run into trees all the time.
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Post by Mabus on Jul 30, 2007 8:45:20 GMT -5
Kroot are way better than any human in jungle terrain, even Catachans.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jul 30, 2007 8:54:53 GMT -5
Not sure what the exact Kroot skills are fow woodland terrain, but Deathworld vets can move through jungle/forests without penalty and can look 12" through that kind of terrain. But I think that is pretty good for a human and I doubt that Kroot have the same skills and the same kind of effective weaponary as humans...
(for stats they're from the free to dl Codex: Deathworld Veterans you can download from the GW page. if it's not ok to post them some mod remove them please)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2007 10:20:51 GMT -5
Actually, you just described the exact kroot rules, can move full 6" in woods/jungles and can see 12". Kroot also recieve a plus 1 to there cover save in woods/jungles. Also there wepons are better (they are the same as a bolter). I would say kroot and deathworld vets are about equal when it comes to jungle fights.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jul 30, 2007 11:22:56 GMT -5
Then they're about the same. The deathworld vets get the save modifier as well.
The Kroot might have the better standard weapon, but the Catachans have far more variety in their arsenal and they also have flamers which is a really, really good weapon in that terrain.
So Kroot vs. Deathworld Vets. will most likely end in a draw.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2007 3:01:17 GMT -5
Deathworld Vets are extremly expensive for what they are unfortunately. Despite their skills.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jul 31, 2007 4:04:29 GMT -5
That's true their abilities and especially the ability of some squads to lay ambushes makes them really expensive.
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Post by Mabus on Jul 31, 2007 4:08:36 GMT -5
Let it drop knight! Kroot are better! They are better in close combat, cheaper in points, better guns, better squad leaders, bigger squads and are just as good as death world veterans in jungles and woods..........Kroot are better.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jul 31, 2007 6:48:10 GMT -5
No mabus I won't drop it! Because it's not completly true what you say. Catachans have a much bigger range of weapons they can rely on and are therefore better in the shooting face and the Kroot won't have any saves against flamers which they can't field. So you can't just simply say "these are better then those" just because of their stats. You have to see their abilities in the terrain and compare them after you have looked at their abilities in the field. And if you compare them on the field with all options and all kinds of combat forms you'll end up that they're nearly even in jungle/forest terrain.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2007 10:23:01 GMT -5
If i may intrude into this heated argument. Are we talking about Kroot, like in the Tau army? Or kroot mercs?
Because there are some BIG differences, kroot merc have tons of special abilities, and specail wargear, like their totems which can be an insane help and advantage. Almost ALL of a kroot merc army will most likely be infaltrating. Using the right totems will also allow 1st turn CC, and there Int is the same, so that means the kroot get all of there attacks +charging attacks +there gun is also a CC wepon +the shaper. Kroot mercs also have booby traps and they also have sniper squads. They even have a squad that is able to set up using ambush like deathworld vetrens.
I will say i think they are farly even, but if played right kroot mercs can be a very tough enemy.
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Post by Mabus on Aug 1, 2007 4:49:40 GMT -5
Are you starting to get it now knight? Kroot are better! even kroot used in a Tau army are better than Catachans, accept it.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Aug 1, 2007 5:28:17 GMT -5
How many people who say that they're even do you need? Currently 2 people try to tell you that they're fairly even.
The Kroot Mercanary list is better, no question. But the Kroot in the Tau list are the same or even worse as long the Catachans aren't played by an total idiot who doesn't know how to play and therefore thinks that Kroot are better all the time...
There are some rules for Deathworld Vets.
1. Stay in forests
2. Use your flamers and get all your troops frag grenades
3. If you'r opponent has frag grenades (or similar) charge before he can, but only if you stay in forests that way. If you'd have to leave the forest for your charge don't do it and retreat a bit deeper in the forest
4. Use your ambush units (some people forget pretty often that they still have ambush units they could set up (happened already to me)
5. Use your snipers, as the Deathworld Vet snipers are really good
6. Don't be a fool and think that guard is bad in CC. IG is good in CC and Deathworld Vets are even better
For the normal IG Codex Catachans it's a bit more difficult...
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Post by Mabus on Aug 1, 2007 8:31:11 GMT -5
I don't think we are going to agree on this one knight. quits?
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Aug 1, 2007 9:27:37 GMT -5
Actually you're the only one not agreeing. And safe your sarcasm for talking. it's hard to tell what is sarcasm if you can't see someone's mimics and motions.
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Post by 9th Company on Aug 1, 2007 15:54:19 GMT -5
Wow this has gone slightly off topic. To the original poster, for me, I don`t like catatchans because the plastic models have too much muscle. They look non human. the old metal models were nice though. That being said, I loved the rules for the Deathworld Vets.
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Post by Mabus on Aug 2, 2007 4:27:31 GMT -5
Calm down knight, deep breaths. This is only a friendly discussion.
Good to hear from you 9th company by the way......
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