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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2008 5:54:21 GMT -5
the new chaos demons, what are they like to play (or play against) have you played against or got some?
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Post by Warmaster Stabwhiskers on Jun 20, 2008 6:33:40 GMT -5
Just imagine, half a Khorne Bloodletter assault force numbering some 40 Bloodletters, each with First Strike and daemonblade rules, deepstriking next to your precious gunline and taking WS 5 swipes at your guardsmen. Before you know it, 3 squads of Guardsmen are down, and your Leman Russ has been Shaken.
In the next turn, a bloodthirster drops next to your Baneblade and smashes it with 3 hits from the Daemon Axe. The Baneblade explodes.
Then in the third turn, imagine screamers assaulting your veteran squad while two brave Stormtrooper squads try desperately to hold the line against the oncoming Bloodletters. That be the taste of daemons with 5th edition rules.
In the 4th Turn, your opponent deepstrikes his Soul Grinders, it takes swipes at your men and decapitates 18 Guardsmen, he then unleashes the Maw Cannons and liquidates 9 Kasrkin with a single shot. The remaining two shots take out a single Basilisk in the back, while your mortar teams send a pounding on his screamers and bloodletters.
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Post by Mabus on Jun 20, 2008 7:34:07 GMT -5
Oh, I'm guessing you didn't win?
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Post by Warmaster Stabwhiskers on Jun 20, 2008 7:52:15 GMT -5
Nope, Devastating Loss
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Jun 20, 2008 13:22:17 GMT -5
devastating yet epic by the sounds of it, I'm excited by the prospect of a glorious death at the hands of gibbering deamons.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2008 3:11:39 GMT -5
Stabwhiskers battle report sums up my experience with daemons as well. I know this is sort of hard for guard, but the only way ive managed to beat them is with my mech-eldar. Whatever you do, dont try Grey Knights, the result is extremely hideous.
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Post by The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) on Jun 21, 2008 7:31:21 GMT -5
i've only played them in fantasy, all your explanations have pretty much summed up my experiences.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2008 6:30:05 GMT -5
wow, i definitely don't want to come up against them
one querrie stabwhiskers can soulgrinders fire at two different targets cos i thought it said in the rules that you could only attack one
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Post by Mabus on Jun 24, 2008 8:26:11 GMT -5
Aren't Greyknights and Demon Hunters good against 'em?
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Jun 24, 2008 18:31:23 GMT -5
that would be the logical conclusion
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2008 6:51:21 GMT -5
demons get the sustained assult rule if you take grey nights, gw probably put it there to try and balance out thier unstopableness but with the new demons its just downright unfair
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jun 28, 2008 7:21:13 GMT -5
The old deamons were much weaker than the new ones. But the new ones aren't unstoppable. I did beat them with CSM and IG in 40K and with Vampire Counts in Fantasy.
You just have to stop them at the right point. It was easiest with Vampires and CSM. Since my CSM and Vampires want to get into CC as fast as possible as well. So you can see, the key is beating them at their own game or at least using their own game against them (ie as Guard).
I sacrificed many squads, just for keeping them away and when they deepstriked in my assault range, I tried to shoot them down on rapid fire range first and eventually sent in another squad or two to finish them off. Its just a matter of tactics against them. And all gunline freaks should stop thinking in static defense doctrines. It doesn't work at all. Get flexible and see you soldiers as what they are. Statistics. We have more than enough of them, so send them in and let them do what they can do best. Killing and getting killed
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2008 5:58:21 GMT -5
ill keep that in mind
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Post by Mabus on Jul 13, 2008 9:13:43 GMT -5
Is there nothing us Gunline tacticians can do to stop them spawning via Deepstrike behind our fragile lines?
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jul 13, 2008 9:40:39 GMT -5
Start moving and beat them at their own game...
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Post by Mabus on Jul 14, 2008 9:08:42 GMT -5
Easier said than done. I don't think my guard are mobile enough. I don't have one DS or infiltrating unit in my entire army. I am worried.
Thanks for the advice though.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jul 14, 2008 17:03:16 GMT -5
Every normal infantry squad is mobile enough.
And why does everyone is so keen on playing with that imobile gunline? I got my ass kicked everytime I used it...
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Post by Mabus on Jul 15, 2008 6:54:51 GMT -5
I was thinking more of my Tau. I have about 40 Tau fire warriors lined up with Kroot backing them up and about 20 Gundrones a bit further back too. If Demons began deepstriking behind my lines I'd be in trouble.
My Guard are quite different. They are highly mechanised with several Leman Russ and Hellhounds, grenadiers etc.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jul 15, 2008 7:36:17 GMT -5
With Tau the gunline is easy. just start blocking the parts behind you with more troops. The Tau weapons have the required range for no being set up at the front edge of your setup zone
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Post by newcomer on Jul 16, 2008 23:44:48 GMT -5
the chaos daemons at my store were prety easy to defeat, since all DSing units drop in a cluster, i maxed out on mortars, flamers, GLs, MLs, Bassies, and if your opponent allows it, Griffons. the last daemon player to go up against my force was ruthlessly annihalated by this strategy
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2008 4:17:17 GMT -5
are the demons hard to kill (high toughness, good armour)
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Post by Mabus on Jul 18, 2008 5:27:55 GMT -5
No, they are pretty fragile actually.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Jul 18, 2008 10:43:01 GMT -5
with the new 5th rules they are able to run after deep striking instead of a shooting phase.
May mess up some of our clustered Pie Plating.
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