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Post by Mabus on Aug 3, 2008 12:41:02 GMT -5
Woh! I'm gone for a week and I come back to this? What's the world coming to?
AP2 Storm bolters? that's just rude! What about the SC in the last codex? Lysander, Cassius, Tigurius? Are they still in? Any more info regarding the price of the Termies and basic marines? If they aren't any more expensive than they already are at the moment I won't be a happy bunny!
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Post by newcomer on Aug 4, 2008 1:04:55 GMT -5
as quoted from BoLS
Hi guys. Here are a few more morsels from some agents in the know:
Honour Guard Honour Guard (available to Chapter Master's only) have artificer armour, bolters, bolt pistols, grenades, and power weapons. They can replace their power weapons with relic blades (S:6, two-handed power weapons) and also have various other options such as storm shields (3+ invulnerable save against all attacks) and auxillary grenade launchers (a 12” grenade launcher that can be fired in addition to any other weapon each and every turn). Marneus Calgar allows the player to field three squads of Honour Guard instead than the standard one squad.
Tabletop Performance Combat Tactics Playing against this in an actual game was not bad as you can still attempt to sweep the marines (as with ATSKNF, they take wounds as if they are fearless if caught). Every time my marine opponent tried it my nasty and quick assault units caught them, and Combat Tactics only forced him to take more armour saves. If the marines had been successful more often I may have had a different opinion on Combat Tactics.
ATSKNF This has changed a little. Marines automatically rally at the begining of their turn and can act normally (they do not count as moving, and don't get the 3" consolidate). They still can't rally if an enemy is within 6". Other than that, it's the exact same.
General Gameplay Thoughts Overall, the game felt like I was playing a codex marine list. I'm not saying that simply because my opponent wasn't useing any of the new codex's flashy new units, but the army played like marines should. Perhaps if I get whacked by some of those new units I'll change my opinion.
FAQs When the marine codex comes out, GW will release updated FAQs for the DA, BA and BT list making some of the changes carry over to them. ATSKNF is a good candidate for this as it is written much more cleanly in the new codex.
~As usual folks, caveat emptor. I shudder at the total cost of an Honour Guard unit kitted out with all the goodies. As for the battle report, it seems like the list may be nice and balanced after all. Our intrepid agent certainly didn't have a "sky is falling" take on the new codex after facing them on the tabletop. Your thoughts?
well im not really scared of the honour guard units, they will have to forfeit LOTS of marines to field a fully kitted out squad, which allows us to mass-fire out flashlights and pray that we can blind them
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Post by The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) on Aug 4, 2008 7:11:25 GMT -5
Not really sure what to think.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2008 7:56:29 GMT -5
beh....honour guard....not much point in my opinion...i'd rather kit out objective grabbing tactical squads than those guys....thanks a lot for the info newcomer...hope there's more!
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Post by chromepip on Aug 4, 2008 18:45:21 GMT -5
I like the idea of the new flash, even though i don't play marines.
Gives them some variety, something that marine armies need. i am looking forawrd to the whole new codex thing, and new codexes for everyone.
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Post by newcomer on Aug 8, 2008 1:03:01 GMT -5
well, now we know for certain when the boys in blue will get spoiled
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Post by majorjav on Aug 8, 2008 11:53:12 GMT -5
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Post by Mabus on Aug 8, 2008 12:30:42 GMT -5
Holy nuts. This is getting silly. They have more guns than us!
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Post by The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) on Aug 9, 2008 15:00:28 GMT -5
All i get up is the home page of the GW US online store.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2008 19:27:04 GMT -5
I've got the old space marine codex, nothing wrong with it.
I've also just started a IG army and i say we are dddddddddddddddeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddd!
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Post by Sen.Kerry on Aug 9, 2008 20:34:59 GMT -5
Sighs. If this gets out of hand, Im just grabbing as many tanks as I can, And not shooting any of them. Imma tank shock their entire stupid army. Edit I was dawdling around on games workshops site looking for something to waste my money on, And I found these. www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1810089_2008_baltimore_Previews_PhotoSpace marines get turrets... Fun[/img] More guns on that one than an entire heavy weapons squad. Forgive me for being cynical. Im just grumpy today.
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Post by newcomer on Aug 9, 2008 22:33:07 GMT -5
just shows how the SMurfs are GW's "chosen ones" and the guard are the hated ones....
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Post by newcomer on Aug 11, 2008 16:03:48 GMT -5
RUMORS: Librarian Powers and More Posted by bigred | Monday, August 11, 2008 | news/rumors | 31 comments »
Rumors brought to the community by Warseer's: VerifiablySane
More tidbits emerge. This time we hear about Command Squads and Librarian powers...
Command Squads
Command Squads may only be taken for Captains (one per Captain). There is no sergeant option as the entire squad are veterans. The Company Champion is an optional upgrade character. The basic squad is 4 veterans and 1 Apothecary. Basic weapons are chainswords and either bolters or pistols. Any squadmember can replace his pistol or sword with: storm bolter, flamer, plasma gun, meltagun, combi-weapon, power sword, powerfist, lightning claw, or thunder hammer. Pistol may be replaced with a plasma pistol. Melta bombs and storm shields can be taken by anyone. The squad may be upgraded to ride bikes.
Librarians Nine psychic powers:
Avenger: essentially an AP3 heavy flamer Force Dome: 5+ invulnerable for the librarian and squad until the end of next player turn Gate of Infinity: librarian and squad Deep Strike back within 24" but with a minor risk... Machine Curse: shooting attack causing a Glancing Hit on 1 vehicle within 24" Might of the Ancients: Librarian gains strength 6 and rolls 2d6 armour penetration Null Zone: all enemy units within 24" re-roll successul invulnerable saves for rest of player turn Smite: 12" range, assault 4 St4 AP2 Quickening: gains Fleet and Initiative 10 Vortex of Doom: 12" St10 AP1 Heavy1 Blast; failed test results in the blast being centered on the librarian without scatter.
~Those powers seem really streamlined compared to the existing ones, and are a combination of many of the old abilities along with a few new ones. As for the command squads, we have heard from other sources that the stormshields listed in an earlier post as options for honor guard are only for command squads. Thoughts guys?
well... the thought of a bike mounted 5 flamer unit in power armour doesnt sound nice... same with a librarian on a bike
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2008 21:59:15 GMT -5
Ok what is the next big thing for the SM getting are they going to dig up the Pirmarchs? Considering how many of them are MIA ? like ok can someone please tell me how in _____________ are the IG are going to compete with them other than a very big gun line (full of HV weapons) and pray that the SM player will try to fight a battle of attrition ? I
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Post by newcomer on Aug 11, 2008 22:40:00 GMT -5
actually, i wouldnt be too suprised if they DID bring back the primarchs...
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Post by Mabus on Aug 12, 2008 5:15:40 GMT -5
Most of them are dead....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2008 12:24:37 GMT -5
Are you sure? I was under the impression that most of the Primarchs that were loyal were MIA ?
Example: the Dark Angels, Space Wolfs, Salamanders , Ultra Marines and a no ones knows what happen to the one for the white scars , imperial fists , Iron Hands Raven Guard. Then there is the Blood Ravens were they don’t even know who their Primarch is.
And the only one that is confirmed KIA is Sanginous . And the with the golden throne damaged beyond repair I don’t think the Gray Knights will have thier Primarch either.
But i think that is something for another thread.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Aug 12, 2008 15:47:05 GMT -5
Raven you forgot to include Sanginous of the Blood Angels. He went up against Horus before the Emperor got to him. Ended up having his spine broken in two and insta killed at the foot of the throne.
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Post by newcomer on Aug 13, 2008 15:05:28 GMT -5
more news
RUMORS: Space Marine Master Compilation Posted by bigred | Wednesday, August 13, 2008 | news/rumors | 38 comments »
This compilation is the combined efforts of warseer's: VariableBob, VerifiablySane, PlasticRat and Bolter and Chainsword's: Ignatius.
~Here is the most recent master compilation of the upcoming Codex Space Marine, incorporating the latest information available from a variety of internet sources. Special thanks goes out to Warseer's: VariableBob for putting it together. Here it is in its unaltered state:
HQ Chapter Master - Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv3+ - May take a Relic blade and Storm Shield. - May take Artificer Armour. - Has around 20 Options - May take Terminator armour, Jump Pack or a Bike - Gives a one shot Orbital Strike which is S10 Ap1. - Has a Bolter, may upgrade to Storm Bolter, Combi Plasma, Combi Melta, Combi Grenade Launcher - May replace Bolt pistol and CCW for pair of Lightning Claws or a Relic Blade
Captain - Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv 3+ - May take a Relic blade and Storm Shield. - If he takes a bike, Bikes may be taken as Troops - Much the same options as above, does not have the orbital strike.
Chaplain - Ws5 Bs4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv3+ - Price is about the same. - Comes with Crozius and Rosarius - Still allows rerolls to hit. - Makes unit with him Fearless - Can replace his bolter with storm, combi-, powerfist, plasma pistol. - When taking terminator armour he replaces “power armour, boltgun, frag and krak grenades for Terminator armour and” one shooting weapon.
Librarian - Ws5 Bs4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv3+ - Has gotten cheaper. - Comes with Force weapon and Psychic Hood - May have 2 powers. - May be upgraded to an Epistolary which allows the use of two powers a turn. Apparently this is expensive. - Psychic hood now has a range of 24" (whether it means that the power is within 24", or the Psyker I dont know) - 9 powers: Avenger - essentially an AP3 heavy flamer, Force Dome - 5+ invulnerable for Librarian and squad until end of next player turn, Gate of Infinity - Librarian and squad Deep Strike back within 24", but with minor risk..., Machine Curse - shooting attack causing Glancing Hit on 1 vehicle within 24", Might of the Ancients - Librarian gains strength 6 and rolls 2d6 armour penetration. Null Zone - all enemy units within 24" re-roll successul invulnerable saves for rest of player turn , Smite - 12" range, assault 4 St4 AP2, Quickening - gains Fleet and Ini.10, Vortex of Doom - 12" St10 AP1 Heavy1 Blast...failed test = blast centred on Librarian without scatter.
Master of the Forge - Ws4 Bs5 S4 T4 W2 In4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+ - Comes with Servo Harness - Has Conversion beamer which gets stronger and more powerful the further away he is firing, in three stages. Maxes out at S10 Ap1 Large blast at 72" - Allows Dreadnaughts to be taken as Elites AND heavy support if he is there.
Honour Guard (?-10) - Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+ 30+ points as standard. - Can only be taken if a Chapter Master is present in the army. - Artificer Armour and power weapon as standard. - Can take Relic Blades which are a two handed power weapon that gives St6. - Can take Aux. Grenade launchers. - One may take a Chapter Standard which, if it still has the same rules as now, gives them Counter attack. - They may take a Chapter Champion, Champion is WS 5. - Chapter Champion must direct attacks against enemy Independant characters if he can. - May NOT take Storm Shields.
Command Squad: - May only be taken by captains. - 4 vets and 1 apothecary, Company Champion is an optional upgrade for one model. - Chainsword and either bolter or pistol as standard. - They can have bikes. - Any can replace pistol or sword with: Storm Bolter, Flamer, Plasma gun, Meltagun, Combi-whatever, power sword or fist, lightning claw, thunder hammer. - Pistol can be replaced with Plasma Pistol. - Melta bombs and Storm Shields can be taken by anyone. - Apothecary gives the unit Feel no pain - One may take a Company Standard which, if it still has the same rules as now, gives them Counter attack.
Kor’Sarro Khan, Captain of the White Scars 3rd Company - Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In5 At3 Ld10 Sv3+ - Gives models in his unit hit and run and Furious Charge. - Moondrakkan is a bike he may take. It’s a bike which can use the Run ability and can also Fleet - Moonfang- A Power sword. Any 6’s on the to wound roll become Instant Death. - May exchange Chapter Tactics for Outflank.
Kayvaan Shrike - Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In5 At3 Ld10 Sv3+ - Jump pack, Iron Halo and master crafted rending lightning claws. - May exchange Chapter Tactics for Fleet. - He has Infiltrate and gives it to his unit.
Pedro Cantor - Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W4 In5 At4 Ld10 Sv2+ - Storm Bolter (Assault 4 and AP 4) and Powerfist - Sternguard in his army count as Scoring units - May exchange Chapter Tactics for Stubborn. - All friendly units within 12” receive +1 attack.
Marneus Calgar - Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W4 In5 At4 Ld10 Sv2+ - Can be fielded in either power armour or terminator armour. Has an Iron Halo with either. - 2 Powerfists and a Stormbolter (Assault 4 AP 2) - He has a power weapon which he is allowed to use (only when in artificer Armour?) - Eternal warrior. - His Chapter Tactics allows his army to choose to pass or fail any Ld tests. - May reroll any failed to wound rolls in both shooting and hand to hand. - May take 3 squads of Honour Guard, if they are all 10 man. These do not take up FOC slots.
Chaplain Cassius - Ws5 Bs4 S4 T6(!) W2 In5 At3 Ld10 Sv 3+ - Feel No pain - New background.
Chief Librarian Tigurius - Knows all(!) the psychic powers available to the marines. - May use 3 powers per turn. - Allows army to reroll any reserve rolls.
Captain Lysander - Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In4 At4 Ld10 Sv2+ - Thunder hammer is Master Crafted and gives Lysander S10, he also adds +1 to the damage against vehicles - Storm Shield (3+ invulnerable save for him) - Eternal Warrior (Again?!) - Bolter Drill- The Squad he is with is allowed to reroll misses with Bolters, bolt pistols, storm bolters and heavy bolters. - Allows one piece of terrain to be fortified, to give +1 to its normal cover save. - May exchange Chapter Tactics for Stubborn.
Captain Sicarius - Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In4 At3 Ld10 Sv3+ - 1 tactical squad gets Counterattack, Infiltrate, Scout or Tank hunters for free. - An army led by captain Sicarius may re-roll the dice when attempting to seize the initiative. - Blister pack allows for bare head & helmet in hand or wearing helmet with plasma pistol in hand. - His mantle gives him Feel no pain(?) - Is able to kill a Wraithlord in one hit with his wargear(?)
Vulkan He'stan - Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In4 At3 Ld10 Sv2+ - Chapter tactics allows all meltas and flamers to become twin linked and all Thunder hammers to become Master Crafted. - 3+ invulnerable (GAH!) - Heavy Flamer (which rerolls to wound) - S6 Power weapon, Master Crafted
Brother Chronus - Upgrade for a Space Marine Vehicle - Gives it Bs5 and allows it to ignore Crew Stunned and Crew Shaken results. - If vehicle is destroyed he can scurry away and crew another one.
Scout Sergeant Telion - Upgrade for Scout Squad - Can give his BS of 6 to another scout in the unit. - Armed with a long range 'stalker' pattern boltgun with the pinning and rending special rules.
Elites Sternguard Veterans (5-10): - Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+ - Come with Bolters and 4 Kinds of Specialised round - Dragonfire bolts- Normal Bolter, Ignores cover - Hellfire Rounds- wound on a 2+. - Kraken bolts- 30” range, S4 Ap4 Rapid Fire - Vengeance rounds- 18” range, S4 Ap3, Rapid Fire, Gets hot - Can Upgrade bolters to Storm Bolters (lose the specialist rounds) - Can take Combi weapons (keep the rounds). - Can also take from a small list of special and Heavy Weapons (Flamers, Heavy flamers and such.) - One of the Sternguard can take a Powerfist or Power weapon - They may choose which round to use each turn.
Dreadnaught: Just like now, also may take twin CCW's or twin autocannons.
Venerable Dreadnaught: WS and BS 5, with most of the Dreadnaught's basic weapons options.
Ironclad Dreadnaught: Basic Dreadnaught Stats with front and Side armour 13. - Probably comes with a Heavy Flamer rather than a Storm Bolter - Can take a Hunter Killer - Has Move through Cover.
Terminators(5-10) - Basic Terminators just like now. - Cyclone Now Heavy 2 - 1 Heavy weapon, 2nd may be purchased if squad has 10 models.
Assault Terminators(5-10) - As now.
Techmarine - Comes with a 2+ save. - Allows one piece of Cover in his deployment zone become +1 to its cover save. - Still has servitors. May choose to leave them.
Legion of the Damned - WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+ invulnerable - Their Sergeant has Ws5 - They always Deep Strike, but reroll scatter if they want.
Troops Tactical Marines(5-10): - Start at 4 marines and a sarge for 90 points, full squad is 165. - Sergeant is included in cost, may take powerfist, storm bolter, combi-bolter. - Variable squad sizes are possible. - Special and Heavy weapons are unavailable unless there are 10 marines in the unit, but then they get free Flamer and a free Multimelta or Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher. Meltagun- 5 points, Plasmagun 10, Lascannon- 10, Plasma cannon- 5 - Bolter, Polt Pistol, Frag and Krak grenades as standard. (NB: they do NOT have a CCW) - Sarge can take Power weapon, Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Plasma Pistol, Storm Bolter, Combi Flamer, Combi Plasma, Combi Melta (and maybe combi grenade Launcher)
Scouts - Ws3 Bs3 S4 T4 W1 In4 A1 Ld8 Sv4+ - Sergeant is WS4, BS4. - Sergeant may take combi-weapon, plasma pistol, power weapon or powerfist. - Shotguns probably S4 - May be an option for Teleport Homers. - Their Heavy bolter can take hellfire Rounds - Squads can be equipped with camo cloaks, granting the Stealth USR.
Bikes - Requires a Captain on a bike. - Requires 5+ bikes. For details of bikes see Fast Attack options.
Rhino: - Probably will drop to 35 points ala Dark Angels and Blood Angels.
Razorback: - Comes with heavy bolter included in cost. - May upgrade to: twin-linked heavy flamer, twin-linked assault cannon, twin-linked lascannon, lascannon and twin-linked plasmagun.
Drop Pod: - Drop pod assault means that Half of all Drop pods come in on the First turn (GW doesnt want Deep striking armies to come on turn 2 or later...understandable) - Drop pods in the first wave can act as guiding beacons for pods in the Second wave. - Costed at slightly more than 2 marines. - Holds 12 marines or 6 terminators or 1 Dreadnought or 1 thunderfire cannon.
Fast Attack Bikes (3-8+trike): -May combat squad, requires 8 bikes plus an attack bike. Divides into 4B/4B+1AB.
Attack Bikes (1-3): - Must pay for Multi-Melta.
Scout Bikes (3-10): - Can upgrade bike with a grenade launcher - Can booby trap areas of terrain with hazardous cluster mines. - Sergeants can be equipped with locater beacons. These function as a teleport homer for any deep-striking unit (drop pods, jum packs etc.)
Assault Marines (5-10): - Sergeant may take a Storm Shield or combat shield. - Only sergeant may have melta-bombs. - Special weapons are 1 for every 5 models - Specials include flamers and plasma pistols. - May remove jump packs and get a free rhino or drop pod in return.
Vanguard Veterans (5-10): - Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+ - Sergeant may take a Relic blade and Storm Shield. - Come with Bolt Pistol and Close Combat weapon, can all take from a bunch of upgrades including: Power weapons, Power fists, Lightning claw (yes, one) - Probably have an option to take Bolters - May also take Combat shields and storm shields. - Jump packs are an upgrade which gives them the Heroic Intervention rule. May take a transport instead. - Heroic Intervention allows them to assault the turn they Deep strike.
Land Speeders (1-3): Pretty much as now. - Typhoon missile launchers fire as Heavy 2 missile launchers.
Land Speeder Storm: - Has a Jammer which disrupts deep striking close by. - Scouts charging from it -2 from the enemy Ld. - Carries 5 scouts (and scouts only) and counts as Open Topped
Heavy Support Thunderfire Cannon - Has techmarine crew. - Can fire in 3 different ways (all heavy 4): St 6 AP5 blast, St 5 AP6 blast ignores cover, St 4 AP- blast causes difficult terrain test in next turn/dangerous terrain for vehicles(inc. skimmers) - May be mounted in a Drop Pod. - Techmarine attendant can bolster defences, providing a 1 point bonus to the cover save of a single ruin in the Space Marine deployment area.
Predator: Pretty much how it is in Codex: Blood Angels (i.e. expensive)
Vindicator: - Siege Shield allows it to auto-pass terrain tests.
Devastator: - Sergeant has a Signum, allows one Marine to fire at BS 5.
Whirlwind: - Has BA/DA style ammo. (Including incendiary?)
Land Raider - Machine spirit allows an extra weapon than allowed to be shot at any available target. - Multi Melta is now a pintle option for all variants. - Can Carry 12 models
Land Raider Crusader - Machine spirit as above - Frag Launchers as normal (useful too, now.) - can carry 16 Models
Land Raider Redeemer - Machine Spirit as normal - Redeemer cannon: Range- Template S6 Ap3 Heavy 1 - Transport Capacity: 12 models
Not unit specific: Decision to split in to combat squads is made at the time each unit is deployed or when a unit disembarks from its Drop Pod. Combat Tactics – allows any unit to automatically fail any Morale Check it takes (from shooting and CC). Combat shields now give a 6+ invulnerable save. Storm shields now give a 3+ invulnerable save. Aux. Grenade launchers are short range, can fire in tandem with another weapon. All sergeants are veterans now, so are just called sergeants.
~Initial comments are that this is a huge amount of detail and units for a single codex. I would consider this set as more reliable than previous information where there are any discrepancies. It would seem that GW is really intent on pulling out the stops with Space Marines. It is difficult to find any unit what doesn't have a lot of potential and when teh codex arrives in our hands and we can see final points costing, there are going to be myriad ways of building lists coming out of this codex. There are also numerous ICs who are just phenomenal. As usual, standard caveats apply to all of this info. Thoughts guys?
jeez, why not remove all the armies eh gw? geez...whats so goda** special about marines dang it!?!??!
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Post by The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) on Aug 13, 2008 15:19:35 GMT -5
All in favour of writing to jervis (or whoever writes the standard bearer articals in your country) about marines being treated better than everyone else?
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Post by Mabus on Aug 13, 2008 15:19:47 GMT -5
OMG!
*Shoots self in head with Laspistol*
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Post by newcomer on Aug 13, 2008 15:20:02 GMT -5
aye, lets mail that guy and ask why
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Post by Mabus on Aug 13, 2008 15:25:58 GMT -5
I'm in. We should have a petition!
Shall I start a thread where people can add their names?
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Post by newcomer on Aug 13, 2008 16:44:07 GMT -5
YES, please do
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Post by The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) on Aug 14, 2008 2:29:04 GMT -5
YES!
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