petty3
Conscript
You came here as a Guardsmen,You will stand as a Guardsman. If need be you will die a Guardsman.
Posts: 39
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Post by petty3 on Aug 3, 2008 6:52:47 GMT -5
So I was painting One day and i dad came in, he asked what i was doing and i told him all about warhammer and gave him my copy of Dawn of war.
Now he wants to try the tabletop game. I'm getting him an army to start with.
Yet chaos is different to me, I know he likes to attack and be smash everything so is better to get Khorne Beserkers or CSM box. What do you guys think?
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Aug 3, 2008 9:03:40 GMT -5
Always start with normal CSM and try the Icons first, before you get Cult Marines as they influence your play style a lot
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Aug 4, 2008 16:08:56 GMT -5
Nothing wrong with him going with a regular Smurf army tooled up for close combat duty like the Blood angels either.
Rhino rushes all around...
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Aug 4, 2008 17:40:57 GMT -5
There is a critcal difference between CSM and SM. SM need to be equipped with everything for the right job. So they either have boltguns or boltpistols and CCs. CSMs always have boltguns, and boltpistols and CC weapons. The Cult Marines (Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Khorne Berserkers, and Rubric Marines) are equipped with special equipment. so the normal CSM are the most versatile troop choices you can get
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Aug 5, 2008 15:43:52 GMT -5
Wait for the new codex. there are some real changes coming to follow suit with the (slightly) overpowered CSM.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Aug 6, 2008 0:11:45 GMT -5
There is a critcal difference between CSM and SM. SM need to be equipped with everything for the right job. So they either have boltguns or boltpistols and CCs. CSMs always have boltguns, and boltpistols and CC weapons. The Cult Marines (Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Khorne Berserkers, and Rubric Marines) are equipped with special equipment. so the normal CSM are the most versatile troop choices you can get so does that mean they always benefit from having both? rapid firing in the shooting phase or alternatively pistols blazing psycho chainsword assault rush? I gotta admit this has been confusing me for awhile.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Aug 6, 2008 1:09:55 GMT -5
CSM have always both weapons. Exceptions are the cult marines.
Noise Marines come with Blast Masters, Plague Marines with Boltguns, Berserkers with Boltpistol and CC Weapon, and Rubric Marines with Boltguns.
The new CSM aren't overpowered ssgtdude. The old ones were overpowered... Ever seen the "Everything-munching-deamon-prince-of-doom-that always-assaults-in-the-first-round-and-can-wipe-out-everything-in-its-way-and-that-for-less-than-400-points"? The new CSM are tough, the old ones were cheesy and beardy and you could abuse their list for power gaming easily if you knew what you had to do with it. Also really popular around here were the Word Bearer lists consisting out of 2 Chaos Lieutenants and 9 squads of deamons. The Lieutenats just played hide and seek and anything that got too close to them was butchered in CC until the deamons started coming in (normally Deamonettes and Blood Letters), and trust me 180 deamons are nothing to fool around with
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Aug 6, 2008 15:34:43 GMT -5
ymmot to answer your question.
Yes they have both and they do benifit from both. However they are also limited by them as well.
If they rapid fire they can't assault in the same round. However, They do have the ability to charge and drop their bolter and switch to the pistol and ccw for cc instead of counting as having a bolter. Basically it boost their attacks by one.
knight I fully agree that the old csm were even more broken, That still doesn't fix the problem with them. IMHO they are still broken and there are still combinations of death that are slowly rectifing themselves with 5th Ed.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Aug 6, 2008 15:38:50 GMT -5
I agree there. They're still really tough and if you're really mean you can do unfair things with them. But less mean things as with the old codex and the 4th edition rules
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petty3
Conscript
You came here as a Guardsmen,You will stand as a Guardsman. If need be you will die a Guardsman.
Posts: 39
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Post by petty3 on Aug 7, 2008 19:11:14 GMT -5
Great discussion so what is your opionion? He wants Chaos.
So shouldi go with just regular or with the cult marines?
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Aug 7, 2008 19:27:58 GMT -5
As long term Chaos player, I strongly recommend using normal CSM, toying a bit around with what playing style suits him best (don't give the icon bearer a specific icon yet and decide that later when you found the right god that suits your playing style the most). Also try in some matches what the cult marines can do. just proxy them for that. I for example can do nothing with Plague Marines, and Rubric Marines. Noise Marines are a bit my case and Berserkers aren't my best either. I prefer normal CSM with Icons of Slaanesh over everything. Just tell him to get some normal CSM for the beginning and let him play bit with them to find out what playing style suits him most or if he wants to take one of the example CSM legions for painting and fluff. If he wants to be able to do anything Black Legion is always nice and fluffy and works well
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