Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2008 0:56:47 GMT -5
the whole thing of grenn stuffing there armour on is a bit much, if you have worn body armour or sapi plates you know there not on your knees and elbows as for thigh guards try to move to with armour plates on the inside of your legs, or get in to the prone posting or kneeling. Not knocking your model. Just tossing out a point out hear.
|
|
|
|
Post by knight (M.I.A) on Oct 14, 2008 18:41:37 GMT -5
Of course no one would do that in reality as no one would wear any armour heavier than helmet and bulletproof vest (perhaps with Ceramic or Titanium inlays). But we're talking about a game here and I still say its unfair to the guy who modelled additional armour on every guy while another one comes along with his standard Cadians and proclaims that they have Carapace. You have to represent Xeno Hunters on a mini, so people could also start moving their lazy fingers and model Carapace armour (or hope that all their opponents accept it)
|
|
|
|
Post by kommissar on Oct 14, 2008 20:58:10 GMT -5
you don't NEED a scultping tool, though it does make it easier, i shall admit.
i done fine with a craft knife, and really anything around the house i felt would make a good shape.
toothpicks, pennies, pens, plastic off cuts.
for the longest time i used a railroad flattened penny that i bent into a 'pringles' chip shape as a great tool, infact i still use it, even though i have a bunch of other tools.
for your first time, i think the knee pads look rocking, if you done a \_/ groove in the middle, or a couple of circular holes (just push a pen or flat/cut off toothpick into the surface) for the slightly more anime asthetic that most japanese armors seem to have in their animation.
|
|
|
|
Post by aeonian on Oct 14, 2008 21:04:15 GMT -5
I always just added plasticard sheets onto the shoulder pads (in my old guard army, not on my newer one) and around their torso so that it was kind of like...samurai armor, I suppose! It was pretty neet! But knight, I know exactly where you're coming from, man - people who don't play by WYSIWYG can be really irritating sometimes! grrr...
|
|
|
|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 15, 2008 6:35:18 GMT -5
I have plans to put extra armour on my guardsmen's abdomens, groin and knees for two reasons:
1. It will allow me to use carapace armour doctrines without offending people like Knight too much. And if I don't want to use carapace, then I won't, and I'll hope nobody notices
2. Having armour on one's forearms is silly, unless you're a close-combat specialist. Bracers are an antiquated design used to block sword blows, but in real terms, a gunshot to the abdomen, knee or groin is going to be far more lethal than one to the forearm.
3. Bracers are hard to model, and Greenstuff don't grow on trees, y'know.
|
|
|
|
Post by jpwyrm on Oct 15, 2008 9:00:09 GMT -5
1. It will allow me to use carapace armour doctrines without offending people like Knight too much. And if I don't want to use carapace, then I won't, and I'll hope nobody notices Exactly my thought on the matter. I sculpt elbows and knee-pads on my Guards meerely for look. As such, I can use them as standard IG with extra-gear, or as Guards with carapace made from tugher and lighter material (i.e. Guards from high-tech or industrialized world) Wouldn't that be great ;D |
|
|
|
Post by knight (M.I.A) on Oct 15, 2008 9:09:19 GMT -5
Wait where do I get all my cheap greenstuff from then when it doesn't grow on trees?  You only have to know where to buy it |
|
|
|
Post by aeonian on Oct 15, 2008 10:34:04 GMT -5
Don't get the GW GS - I use either Gale Force 9 (if anyone knows what that is) or anything else I can get my hands on, but GW stuff that isn't part of my army is IMO not worth purchasing!
|
|
|
|
Post by kommissar on Oct 15, 2008 10:58:48 GMT -5
Wait where do I get all my cheap greenstuff from then when it doesn't grow on trees? You only have to know where to buy it i get the greenstuff that www.thewarstore.com sells they have two differnt types, one thats 15 and one thats 12 bucks, they are both the same thing and amount, so get the 12 dollar one. their "army painter" brand primers are awesome too |
|
|
|
Post by knight (M.I.A) on Oct 15, 2008 11:54:42 GMT -5
Third party companies are best bet. GW just buys from another company and resells with their label and a hefty price tag (at least I'd do it like that...)
|
|
|
|
Post by 9th Company on Oct 18, 2008 5:33:45 GMT -5
I don`t think its that important to model extra armour on the Guardsman. Like Woz said, you could just say the armour is thicker or made of a different material. I like to think of it as comparing the WW2 German helmet to the current US helmet. Very similar shape but the materials used make a huge difference.
I think the "counts as" rule is harmless enough so long as it doesn`t deliberately mislead or confuse an opponent. Saying all these models count as wearing carapace wouldn`t confuse anyone because all the models have to have it. Now, if you could choose which squads have carapace then it would be necessary to distinguish the carapace and flak armoured guardsmen.
|
|
|
|
Post by knight (M.I.A) on Oct 18, 2008 6:43:42 GMT -5
Ok everyone...
You have spent days ah weeks on modelling additional armour on all your simple Guardsmen and painting them. Now you have your 200 infantrists with really cool looking carapace and you love it, even when you spent far too much time on that and you're still doing that with your new minis.
Now you go in your local shop to play a game. Against another IG. You use your doctrines including Carapace. Now your opponent comes along and tells you that he uses carapace, too after seeing all your nicely modelled minis. His army is standard Cadians without any additional armour and many of them are still plastic grey or just primed. Wouldn't you feel upset too?
|
|
|
|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 18, 2008 8:41:15 GMT -5
Exceptionally. However, the fact is that it is your problem.
Though you should at least make some effort to convert additional armour.
|
|
|
|
Post by kommissar on Oct 19, 2008 11:42:16 GMT -5
on the plus side, your army looks cooler than his  |
|
|
|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 19, 2008 13:07:49 GMT -5
That always tends to provide a combat bonus.
|
|
|
|
Post by 9th Company on Oct 19, 2008 13:10:59 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind at all. He isn't breaking any rules and he isn`t giving himself an unfair advantage. If he wanted to vary his army a bit then I wouldn't get in his way.
|
|
|
|
Post by aeonian on Oct 27, 2008 9:57:30 GMT -5
Remember folks, the dice gods smile kindly upon a fully painted/converted army. I like to model carapace armor simply because it looks friggin awsome, not because I think people need it. For example, as stated above with the german helmet and the American K-pot - just consider this; one inch of iron is not as durable as one inch of titanium steel, so the material thing works out.
|
|
|
|
Post by knight (M.I.A) on Oct 28, 2008 11:38:39 GMT -5
And the bullet in the face or stomach is still as deadly as in the weak version...
Stronger materials are worthless when you're not covering more parts of the body with it. Guess why the heavy and high class ballistic vest are that heavy. They're not just front and rear plate, but also side. Those vests and suits cover more. The EOD mining clearance equipment is a full body suit and few things can get through it. Superior material is worthless when you don't use it right and cover the most sensitive parts with it. Actually the Cadian sytle armour is a piece of crap. Autogun and aimed shots at the stomach... too bad that there is no armour protecting that area while that would look different again Kasrkin
|
|
|
|
Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Oct 28, 2008 13:12:33 GMT -5
1.looks better
2.feels better
3.is better!
modelling carapace on all your squads will really make them stand out and look unique, it is not nesscery per say but you will earn the admiration of your fellow players in your gaming community for your first rate conversion work, you won't have to tell anybody your using the carapace doctrine because if they look they can clearly see it, and the fellow with the half painted and unconverted cadains will see it too, and I'm sure he'll be impressed, maybe even inspired to give it a try himself(though sometimes people just don't have the talent, and we oughta give everyone a break now and then, I'd rather see 'counts as' carapace then to see a bunch of models ruined by having huge globs of greenstuff plastered all over them.)
another alternative is to buy yourself a whole bunch of stormtroopers and swap their hellguns with lasguns, I'm not too sure which conversion would be easier, but I know which is more expensive...
|
|
|
|
Post by 9th Company on Oct 28, 2008 15:19:19 GMT -5
And the bullet in the face or stomach is still as deadly as in the weak version... Stronger materials are worthless when you're not covering more parts of the body with it. Guess why the heavy and high class ballistic vest are that heavy. They're not just front and rear plate, but also side. Those vests and suits cover more. The EOD mining clearance equipment is a full body suit and few things can get through it. Superior material is worthless when you don't use it right and cover the most sensitive parts with it. Actually the Cadian sytle armour is a piece of crap. Autogun and aimed shots at the stomach... too bad that there is no armour protecting that area while that would look different again Kasrkin I know what you're saying there but its worth remembering that GW doesn't really care for reality, after all, a topless Catachan is entitled to a 5+ armour save. |
|
|
|
Post by knight (M.I.A) on Oct 28, 2008 15:27:01 GMT -5
Why do I think I'm the only one who cares about WYSIWYG...
I guess too many years of Necromunda and Mordheim got me that...
and 9th, that counts in reality and 40k. Where there is no armour there it still hurts... So the Cadian soldier will cry with pain when he gets a bullet of my traitors in his stomach and so will a soldier with "carapace" that looks identically to the Cadian as he still has no armour covering his stomach. Happy bleeding to death... but I just guess I'm to realistic and Necromunda fixated again..
|
|
|
|
Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Oct 28, 2008 16:40:32 GMT -5
I know what you're saying there but its worth remembering that GW doesn't really care for reality, after all, a topless Catachan is entitled to a 5+ armour save. I think it is obvious, Catachan hide is tougher than Ork armor. |
|
|
|
Post by Inquisitor Lord Graenis on Oct 28, 2008 16:52:11 GMT -5
didn't you know? Catachans are actually robots, if I remember there was an old model with half a robotic face, this is the proof |
|
|
|
Post by newcomer on Oct 28, 2008 17:16:34 GMT -5
thats commander straken, he only has those bionics because he lost those parts to a land shark or something like that, so yeah catachan hide is tougher than ork hide lol
|
|
|
|
Post by 9th Company on Nov 1, 2008 8:52:43 GMT -5
I wouldn`t dispute that a shot to the stomach would hurt just as much of course it would. I would say however that the 1+ save could be justified as wounds that would previously pass through flak without a problem being deflected by the tougher carapace.
|
|
