Tyranids vs Eldar; any tips?

[halosnachtariff]

Hi all
I only know one person who plays Warhammer, this is good in that i can talk to him about it without sounding crazy, but it is bad because I only ever get to fight his army.

This is especially bad because I pretty much always lose.

So I'm planning on playing again with him soon in a 2000pts match, my Tyranids against his Eldar. So I'm wondering if anyone has any tricks or tactics that might help me get the upper hand.

The recurring problems when I face him are; his large unit of Howling Banshees, thanks to their screamer masks and power swords these things decimate anything I throw at them, even genestealers w/ scything talons get destroyed. His various Wraithlords, depending on the points available he will field between one and three Wraithlords, these things are always too tough for me to kill and will shoot up my smaller troops before rushing in to punch carnifexes. His tanks can also cause the occasional problem, mostly the warlock/farseer carrying Wave Serpent.

I have access to most of the options in the Tyranid codex, also this is my first battle using the new 40K rules. I'm planning on splitting my large gaunt broods into smaller units and give them withour number so they can run back onto the board and claim/contest any objectives towards the end of the game. I'm going to try and nail his Banshees with some Deathspitter armed Warriors, enough templates should do some damage. I'm not sure how to get rid of his Wraithlords and tanks though, maybe Zoanthropes, or a Broodlord?

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[WestRider]

Howling Banshees: there are a couple of options here. A T7 Carnifex is completely immune to their Attacks, except possibly the Exarch, so he can demolish the Squad at his leisure. Hormagaunts with Catalyst will still get worked, but they should take the Banshees down with them. Venom Cannon and DeathSpitter fire can both do a pretty good number on them as well.

WraithLords: Stealers are really your best option here. Give them Scuttlers, so they can use the Outflank option from 5th Ed, and they should be able to get to the WraithLords relatively quickly. Feeder Tendrils also got way better in 5th; they let you Re-Roll missed To-Hit Rolls in CC now. Consider them. Even without them, though, 8 Stealers can pretty reliably drop a WraithLord in 1-2 Assault Phases.

Tanks: Dealing with Tanks is a big problem for Nids in 5th Ed, and the Eldar Tanks are some of the most obnoxious. The DakkaFex (2xTL Devourers, +BS) used to be the go-to choice here, but with the new damage table and rules for AP- Weapons, they can't do more than rip the occasional gun off. I think your best be might be a Combat Flyrant with Bio-Plasma. 6 S6 Attacks hitting on 6s wiht MC benefits, plus a S7 Attack hitting on 4+, all against the Rear Armour, should be able to do some damage, and he's fast enough that he's got a chance to catch it.

WoN Gaunts: Make sure you've got a 'Thrope or something hanging around in the backfield so they'll be in Synapse after they move back on. Also, take a look through the new Cover Save Rules. These guys can be really useful for Screening Warriors, Stealers, or Hormies before getting shot up. Also, note that you "may" bring them back on. When you roll up an Annihilation Mission, you're going to want to leave them dead.

Good Luck!

[halosnachtariff]

Thanks that's really helpful.

I forgot to mention that the only thing I can't field is a flyrant, the only hive tyrant I own is of the non flying variety and she's too difficult to carry around and play with without her breaking, I'm remodelling and repainting a lot of my army and I need to re-pin her.

Hopefully he wont bring too many tanks, he normally only brings the one wave serpent, and maybe a fire prism, guess I can just try for 'weapon destroyed' results rather than trying to destroy them.

I guess Warp Blast on 'thropes is somewhat redundant now, Catalyst or Psychic Scream are better choices? On a related note does anyone know if all your Zoanthropes have to take the same powers, seen as they all occupy the same force slot, or can you mix and match?

[Machine Gun Kelly]

I don't know if this is any help as it isn't a solid advice but I will mention it anyway. what has helped me against "specialized squad" armies is the mindset...

...Shoot his fighting stuff and fight his shooting stuff.

[halosnachtariff]

Ha, Ha, good advice!

We haven't set a date for playing yet but when we do I'll be sure to write up the results.

[WestRider]

'Thropes can mix and match, yes.

Warp Blast has never actually been that great at Anti-Tank, to tell the truth. Once you factor in hitting with BS3, needing to Pen, and then getting a decent result on the Damage Table, they've only got something like a 10% chance per shot of Destroying or Immobilizing a Wave Serpent, half that if it moved over 12".

I used Warp Blast for quite a while, but then I realized that it never seemed to do much, ran the math, and decided it wasn't worth the Points. The unfocused Blast, though, with the Blast Marker, can be really good against Power Armoured forces if you end up playing against them.

Nowadays I generally just take Synapse on my 'Thropes, although I'm starting to warm up to Catalyst. It's cheap enough that I can pretty much throw it in as a "why not?" option, and not care too much if I don't end up using it.

If he's only got one or two Tanks, things get rather easier. A Fire Prism is actually pretty easy to shut down, since you just need to stop it from Shooting. Even with only getting Glancing Hits, a Venom Cannon on a Fex or Tyrant can do that fairly reliably. It's the Transports, that you need to Immobilize or Destroy, that really become a problem.

[halosnachtariff]

Okay, I've drawn up an army list:

HQ
• 3 Warriors: Rending Claws, 2 Deathspitters, Venom Cannon, +1BS, +1sv
• 5 Warriors: Rending Claws, Deathspitters, +1BS, +1sv;
Troops
• 16 Hormagaunts: Flesh Hooks;
• 16 Hormagaunts: Flesh Hooks;
• 16 Gaunts: Fleshborers, W/o Number, +1sv;
• 16 Gaunts: Fleshborers, w/o Number;
• 12 Genestealers: Feeder Tendrils;
• 9 Genestealers: Scuttlers, Feeder Tendrils;
Elites
• 2 Lictors:
Heavy Support
• 1 Carnifex: 2 Scything Talons, Tusked, Spine Banks, Scythe Tail, Toxin Sacs, Implant attack, Toxic Misama , Acid Maw, Flesh Hooks, Adrenal Gland (WS);
• 1 Carnifex: Venom Cannon, Barbed Strangler, Extended Carapace, Bonded Exoskeleton, Reinforced Chitin, Enhanced Senses;
• 3 Zoanthropes: Synapse Creature, 2 Catalyst;
Total Points: 1997

Lots of troop broods to hold objectives/table quarters, and a lot of synapse creatures to hold the gaunts in check. Two Zoanthropes will move forwards with the brood to utilise the catalyst power and one will hang back to support any respawning broods.
The first Carnifex will leg it across the board, using any cover it can find and smash into any large units, it's designed to deal the maximum number of possible wounds; +2 attacks on the charge, 4 attacks, toxic miasma reduces enemy WS while the adrenal gland improves the fexes, Toxin sacs increase strength, acid maw allows rerolls to wound and the implant attack doubles any inflicted wounds.
The second Fex will stalk behind and shoot at things, hopefully drawing a lot of fire, hence all the resilience upgrades.
The 9 'stealers with Scuttlers will come on from a flank and make a mess of whatever is suitable.
The 2 Lictors are mainly there because I love the model and the concept, they can jump out of objectives and hopefully nobble any troops trying to hold them, plus there pheromene trail will let my 'stealers turn up earlier.

That's the plan anyway, the list is somewhat mutable as most of those upgrades are only there to fill up points.

So what do you think, anyone spot any gaping flaws in my tactics or ammendments to my list?

[WestRider]

It should be OK, but here are some minor tweaks that might help: First off, since pretty much everything in the Eldar List is AP5 or better, the +Sv on the Termagants doesn't seem very worthwhile. Especially since they're WoN, so you want them to die as fast as possible, so they can come back in time to do something.

Second, Catalyst pretty much replaces the need for Flesh Hooks on the hormies. Go with +WS instead. It'll help you dish it out on the Banshees/Scorpions, and cut down on how easily the Exarch can hit you.

I'd throw Reinforced Chitin on that CombatFex. The extra Wound will go a long way towards protecting the pretty substantial investment you've made there.

On the SniperFex, on the other hand, I'm not sure how useful +Sv will be. The Eldar pack a lot of AP2, and not much AP3, and he's probably going to be hanging back out of Small Arms range.

For a bigger change, it might be worth considering dropping one of the Termagant Broods. Since you're using WoN, it's less necessary to have the sheer numbers on the table to start, and that would free up a bunch of Points and another Troops Slot. You could get an Elite Fex in there, add another Stealer or two, and go 3x8-9 with them.

[halosnachtariff]

Thanks a lot, I've also moved the +1 Toughness upgrade from the ranged-fex to the combat-fex, that way he should be able to cause some problems for the Banshees.

I've added a third Carnifex with two Twin-Linked devourers, but he'll mainly be used to draw fire, maybe causing some problems for whatever he fires at with rerolls to wound and hit.

[Deleted]

numbers, pyschic users (Zoanthorpes), Hive Tyrant, and Carnifexes.

Guants all the way!

-Panzer

[Deleted]

HQ
• 3 Warriors: Rending Claws, 2 Deathspitters, Venom Cannon, +1BS, +1sv
i prefer to run with scy tal on my warriors, but i can see the point. but against the paper tiger, i would want the extra attacks. remove the bs improvement, the template doesnt improve enough for it to matter. i never use anything but spitters and ts for warriors, cheap and deadly. vc is a no go for me, too pricy for a ap4 glancer.
• 5 Warriors: Rending Claws, Deathspitters, +1BS, +1sv;
Troops
same as above.
move one of the warriors to the elite spot, add a tyrant with a venom cannon and tl devouirers, it is the best setup for the tyrant to take all comers. instadeath for nobs, meqs, and such. heavy enough to hurt av 12 and lower.

troops
• 16 Hormagaunts: Flesh Hooks;i dont like them, they fail to do enough dammage compared to stealers with tendrils and scuttlers
• 16 Hormagaunts: Flesh Hooks; i dont like them, they fail to do enough dammage compared to stealers with tendrils and scuttlers
• 16 Gaunts: Fleshborers, W/o Number, +1sv; dont bother with the save, give them toxin sacs, nice upgrade and won means they get the chance to use it. lower number to 10 and get 3 squads of them
• 16 Gaunts: Fleshborers, w/o Number; same as above.
• 12 Genestealers: Feeder Tendrils; give scuttlers. and another squad, 8 is the optimum squad.
• 9 Genestealers: Scuttlers, Feeder Tendrils; same as above.

so that is 24 stearels and 30 gaunts, if you make the changes.

Elites
• 2 Lictors: fine, i prefer to save elite slots for warriors, but i can see the point
adding a screamer fex, 2x scy tals with the ws upgrade, a good choice. getting rid of your heavy cc fex in heavy support.
or a dakka fex, my person choice but i run a very shooty type, nidzillish ( 5 tmc) army.

Heavy Support
• 1 Carnifex: 2 Scything Talons, Tusked, Spine Banks, Scythe Tail, Toxin Sacs, Implant attack, Toxic Misama , Acid Maw, Flesh Hooks, Adrenal Gland (WS); point hog, i just dont like to have that many points in a m odel that might not see combat. get another shooter fex
• 1 Carnifex: Venom Cannon, Barbed Strangler, Extended Carapace, Bonded Exoskeleton, Reinforced Chitin, Enhanced Senses; too many upgrades. pick and chose carefully. i run just the extra wond usually. also try to run one with tl devs and the strangler. a fun way to run them at times .
• 3 Zoanthropes: Synapse Creature, 2 Catalyst; you can have 2 psychic powers each, use them. synaspe is cool, catalyst is good, and although pricy the blast is good too.

so in summary

i can see why you are having problems, you dont have enough high power shooting to handle the eldar. shoot tanks first, eldar dont foot slog well. once they are not moving that well, they are very suseptable to firing from the stranglers.

put most of your force in the center of the table, use the outflanking stealers to get the enemy trying to avoid you at the edges of the table, results in your army crushing the enemy in combat. that is why you only need 8 in a squad, i have used 6 per squad and still had great sucess,