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Post by Sister Galatea(M.I.A) on Aug 12, 2009 15:09:51 GMT -5
So I've been playing these guys from time to time and I get the sensation that the entire game is just a down hill battle. The Eldar seem so jagged, rigid and scattered that for me they lack the smooth flow of what makes a good army. They are overpriced, clunky and hard to play.
What do the Eldar need to be streamlined again and to have a niche of their own?
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Aug 12, 2009 16:04:23 GMT -5
my craftworld eldars get neglected the most, they just sit in a box looking sad while my Dark Eldar get all the glory(and quite a lot of shame)
I have played 3 games with my Eldar...
won once and lost twice...
I use guardians and avengers and rangers mostly...never really liked the look of the other aspect warriors...which is probably why I didn't do better in the limited games I have played.
the last time I played Eldar was the biggest ass kicking I have ever received playing this game.
if I even had to start getting rid of my armies(heaven forbid!)
the Craftworlders would be the first ones to go.
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Aug 12, 2009 16:31:55 GMT -5
Eldar armies require you to think like a chess master in order to win.
Each unit excels in one particular area ex. Scorpions are good CC units against mid-toughness opponents with low armor. Banshee's excel at cutting through power armored units before they can be struck back. Reapers lay down serious fire support.
But, to get the most out of a unit, you need to maximize their strengths, while minimizing their weaknesses.
Think of it as almost like a dance, if one partner does not do as he is supposed to do, the dance fails and falls apart. But if both partners act perfectly in concert, then it will flow together elegantly.
The trick is to go over each unit in your force and ask yourself, "What is this unit meant to do? What are its strengths? What are its weaknesses? How does it fit with the other units in my army?"
We'll use the Striking Scorpions as an example:
What is this unit meant to do?
Scorpions are heavy infantry with strong Close Combat abilities.
What are its strengths?
3+ save, S4, good number of attacks, can infiltrate or outflank
What are its weaknesses?
Lack Power Weapons, T3, no Fleet, expensive
How does this fit with the rest of my army?
Scorpions work best when tying up low toughness and low armor save units (i.e. Guardsmen, Guardians, DE Warriors, etc.) in CC. By doing this, I can concentrate my heavy armor killers (Banshee's) on these units, and my Wraithlords can concentrate on picking off IC's and Command Squads.
Eldar are very subtle, but when you get them working in concert, they are a very viable and very deadly army.
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Post by Romer on Aug 12, 2009 17:03:09 GMT -5
The biggest problem I see with Eldar armies, is because the aspect warriors are inherantly, very specalised. It makes building a flexible "take all comers" army very difficult.
Your Howling Banshees are gonna be useless against an Ork Horde, or a 'Nid Swarm, But your Scorpians suffer against Marines. What good are your Fire Dragons if the enemy has few vehicles?
And like what was said before... If an element fails in its task, you're in trouble.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 12, 2009 17:05:43 GMT -5
Remind me again why people don't take swooping hawks more? Those things scare me. In planetstike, they would be so much win, that Yarrick would ask for a pair of prosthetic wings.
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Aug 12, 2009 17:06:43 GMT -5
What good are your Fire Dragons if the enemy has few vehicles? Well, Fire Dragons are good at more than killing vehicles. They're also good at killing things like Terminators and Veteran Squads, high Armor, low number units. So, Fire Dragons really do play a dual role, but they're primary targets really should be tanks. Remind me again why people don't take swooping hawks more? Those things scare me. Hawks probably will see more use in Planetstrike if you ask me. The Skyleap ability, coupled with the ability to blow up a unit a turn makes them very nasty. The reason they're generally not taken in regular games is that they fill a similar role to Scorpions, who are honestly much better at killing those low Armor units. In planetstike, they would be so much win, that Yarrick would ask for a pair of prosthetic wings. He doesn't need them. We already know he can fly, and breathe in space. |
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Aug 12, 2009 17:10:03 GMT -5
I have considered getting myself some fire dragons...
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Aug 12, 2009 17:15:44 GMT -5
Fire Dragons are worth it.
Especially when coupled with a Falcon outfitted to kill basic troops as a transport. You can literally do drive by Melta's. And due to the fact Falcons get pretty good saves against most attacks, it's much more efficient than using a Chimera sometimes.
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Post by Sister Galatea(M.I.A) on Aug 12, 2009 23:22:04 GMT -5
Cause yeah....I have the mind of a chess master....=P
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Aug 12, 2009 23:22:59 GMT -5
Cause yeah....I have the mind of a chess master....=P You can learn. It just takes a little practice. |
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Post by Sister Galatea(M.I.A) on Aug 12, 2009 23:23:53 GMT -5
I can't learn how to switch hard drives on an Xbox 360...
Yeah, Chess Master I ain't.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Aug 12, 2009 23:24:39 GMT -5
Me neither,
I've never won a game of chess in my entire life...
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Aug 12, 2009 23:25:07 GMT -5
I can't learn how to switch hard drives on an Xbox 360... Yeah, Chess Master I ain't. *facepalm* Neither can I... |
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 13, 2009 10:19:41 GMT -5
Haha! I don't even HAVE a 360!
Anyway, the most effective use I've seen with Eldar is something of a combi-blitz. Falcons (or Wave Serpents or whatever the transports are called) are damn good transports, probably the best in the game. Packing something like a Seer Council or Striking Scorpions into them and sending that at your enemy, with Rangers and Dark Reapers doing a little fire support, backed up by Fire Prisms. That was what it looked like to my untrained eye, at least.
Honestly, all the units are VERY specialized, making the inherent flexibility of the IG or SM, or the "one size fits all" approach Orks will usually take (Which tends to be "Kill it with Choppy", in my experience) much easier to use then an Eldar army. That's part of the reason I don't like them as an army. They have to be run just so.
Reds
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 13, 2009 11:30:22 GMT -5
I can't learn how to switch hard drives on an Xbox 360... Yeah, Chess Master I ain't. Hold in the button, then pull the drive off the console. I have won a few chess games  |
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Post by druchi on Aug 13, 2009 13:16:46 GMT -5
I won a chess tournament for 12's and under but if I am totally honest it was pure luck. You should have seen the other kids playing their total ches whiz kids and I just went along for something to do...
I always have been curious about the elder our shop has an entire painted eldar army in Harlequin colours with a ninja wraithlord and so on and its just so inspiring. Also I despise those swooping hawks such a nasty nasty unit.
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Post by nicholasakira on Aug 14, 2009 21:56:21 GMT -5
The eldar are a very smart army. Each unit has a purpose and it must be brought into the right place at the right moment. An army very much unlike the guard, who are very kick-em-in-da-teef.
The best eldar player I've heard of is the guy who writes the Way of Saim-Hann blog. He likes to start games by putting almost everything/everything in reserve.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Aug 15, 2009 16:55:05 GMT -5
Guard are hardly an unsubtle army. Indeed, their infantry require a great deal of subtlety to utilise correctly.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 15, 2009 17:04:44 GMT -5
Subtlety in this case being: how shall I allocate my wounds?
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Post by Aeon on Aug 18, 2009 23:43:00 GMT -5
if I even had to start getting rid of my armies(heaven forbid!) the Craftworlders would be the first ones to go. Heaven? Could you possibly mean, the Throne?  |
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commisar19
Lieutenant
Manbearpig is real.
Posts: 138
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Post by commisar19 on Sept 8, 2009 8:44:35 GMT -5
guard infantry have many subtle uses.to find out what they are, you got to try everything. yes that includes charging genestealers and winning
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Sept 8, 2009 9:54:10 GMT -5
The use of narcotics is forbidden, trooper...
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Sept 8, 2009 15:29:53 GMT -5
 " Did somebody say narcotics?Aw crap, here come the Emperor's Children! Quick, hide the drugs!-Ahem- Galatea shoulda picked Dark Eldar. Sure they're even worse than their rainbow flavored breathren... but she would have had more fun! (and talk about smooth, when everything falls in place and the dice gods shine kindly upon you there is no one smoother.) |
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Sept 8, 2009 17:37:10 GMT -5
Or sharper...
Or more, AUGH! *is dragged away*
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