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Post by Woz on Feb 14, 2005 21:46:30 GMT -5
OK I've been reading posts about why people don't take HW's in squads so here's my thoughts.
A HW will give a squad some serious long range firepower for taking out tanks/ heavily armoured troops or hoards.
But some people think that by taking a HW you you lose mobility.
But if you think about it all you lose is one lasgun which if your moving only has a range of 12".
If you are using your squad as an assault squad, why would you move within 12" of the enemy and fire? By firing you can no longer assault, and you leave yourself open to a counter assault.
A guardsman with a HW is just as good in CC as a guardsman with a lasgun.
So for me the tactical advantages in taking a HW in all my squads far outweighs the loss of one 12" lasgun shot.
If you could take an extra SW instead of a HW then I could see the piont but the only reason I can see for not taking a HW is to save points to buy more men.
Your thoughts please............
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2005 3:43:44 GMT -5
I never give up my heavy weapons, too useful to not take... ;D Even if I do move some of my squads now and then, in the end, I usually need that heavy weapon. Remember, both heavy weapon crews still get either a laspistol or lasgun (atleast in the old codex, I think it´s the same in the new...) so you don´t miss those shots even if you move, the squad just is more expensive and have a heavy weapon when needed... Though, I admit, I´ve never played with just special weapons in my squads, though I´ve moved a lot with them, the heavy weapons are just too good to not take...
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Post by Picklenose on Feb 15, 2005 9:20:18 GMT -5
Why not HW's? They are better than a regular las gun... Like a heavy bolter... much better.
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Raven
Guardsman
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Post by Raven on Feb 23, 2005 17:28:22 GMT -5
i would have to disagree with you guys i have a lot of heavy weapons in my force and they are hardly used (execpt aganist nids') my oppent is a cunning one (he uses tau) and stays out of my range so i have to move up and take him out in Hth combat, other wise i get hit with shot after shot of his hammer head. but thats just me and iv never lost a battle with my guard.
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Post by Woz on Feb 23, 2005 20:57:23 GMT -5
other wise i get hit with shot after shot of his hammer head. Perfect target for Deep Striking Storm Troopers with melta guns. ;D
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 27, 2005 2:59:42 GMT -5
I give my squads that are assaulty (flamer/meltagun type squads) a heavy bolter..it's only 10pts, but why not give it to em, if then only use it sometimes it's worth it.
I play quite defensively, so if i dont have a good path of movement from cover to cover i'll sit and wait with a squad, reinforcing the position so that i can move a few units across the open turf to ensure that some of em make it..while waiting, that heavy bolter typically pays for itself a few times over.
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Post by Woz on Jun 30, 2005 5:53:13 GMT -5
ii have to move up and take him out in Hth combat, other wise i get hit with shot after shot of his hammer head. But if you have to move up then your opponenet will be in HW range long before he's in CC range? ??
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jul 1, 2005 2:11:05 GMT -5
well according to raven, by bum rushing tau with his guard instead of stopping and firing he's upheld his 'i've never lost' status..that's gotta be worth something.
i wonder if that strategy would work with an all infantry army like i use...gives me visions of tau firewarrior and krootsies making an absolute mess of my waves of incoming infantry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2005 12:27:50 GMT -5
i would have to disagree with you guys i have a lot of heavy weapons in my force and they are hardly used (execpt aganist nids') my oppent is a cunning one (he uses tau) and stays out of my range so i have to move up and take him out in Hth combat, other wise i get hit with shot after shot of his hammer head. but thats just me and iv never lost a battle with my guard. How can he get out of range of the Imperial guard? Pretty hard to keep an entire army out of 48"-ranged heavy weapons and still doing damage except for railguns or Ion cannons.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Oct 20, 2006 2:40:21 GMT -5
well according to raven, by bum rushing tau with his guard instead of stopping and firing he's upheld his 'i've never lost' status..that's gotta be worth something. i wonder if that strategy would work with an all infantry army like i use...gives me visions of tau firewarrior and krootsies making an absolute mess of my waves of incoming infantry. I tried it...like 10x...I died as fast as I could move forward, thus I moved 6" with everything forward and the tau player killed approximately the front 6" of my mass of troops. I did this till I ran out of troops then cried and went home.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2006 13:47:46 GMT -5
I always take them, 9 bodies before you destroy my heavy weapon? Yes please!
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Oct 21, 2006 2:13:55 GMT -5
I agree with ya madman, I agree. 10pts is just too small a price to pay for the versatility that a heavy bolter grants to a squad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2006 21:45:05 GMT -5
correct me if im wrong too guys, but isnt the guard one of the only few armies in 40K that can actually field heavy weapons in their squads,
now if im not wrong that is one hell of an advantage, one that i intend to exploit to its fullest....plus heavy weapons just look cool and can really improve the character and fluffiness of your army.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Oct 25, 2006 3:40:37 GMT -5
marines get heavy weapons in their squads. nids dont, necrons dont, tau dont, orcs DO, um...eldar for the most part don't (but their guardians do)...no clue about dark eldar but I'd guess they don't. am I missing someone? I feel like I'm missing a faction :s
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2006 6:52:41 GMT -5
marines get heavy weapons in their squads. nids dont, necrons dont, tau dont, orcs DO, um...eldar for the most part don't (but their guardians do)...no clue about dark eldar but I'd guess they don't. am I missing someone? I feel like I'm missing a faction :s Chaos, but I guess that's marines anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2006 5:24:43 GMT -5
wow...ok i stand corrected .....but heavy weapons still rock in guard squads
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Oct 26, 2006 17:24:28 GMT -5
yeah I have to conceed that heavy weapons are intended to be taken by guard infantry platoon squads. guard infantry platoons are meant to be well rounded and capable of any role to an 'average' digree of success. other guard units have different specialties like heavy weapon squads or special weapon squads, stormtroopers etc.
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Post by kyron on Dec 9, 2006 13:50:03 GMT -5
Dark Eldars can choose between Dark lances and Disintegrators.. So most armies can have a HW.. But back to the real issue..
I have a assault platoon with only special weapons. 1 flamer, 2 meltaguns and 2 plasma guns. First the flamersquad advances, followed by 2 meltasquads. Last comes 2 plasmasquads and softens up the target unit with their rapid fire plasma. The lack of heavy weapons are fixed by adding a chimera to the command squad. For example fire warriors can't hurt it, but it would get destroyed you can always use it as terrain.
The other platoon DO have HW. Since their role is to provide firesupport to the unlucky ones that have to charge.
This far it have worked just fine against any foe. Plus, there are always tanks and other vehicles there to provide additional cover.
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Post by Goddess of Darkness on Dec 9, 2006 19:54:54 GMT -5
In a general list I have 2 platoons...generally...so I give at least 2 of the 3 squads out of a platoon heavy weapons, plus a grenade launcher. The ones that don't have heavy weapons I use to advance. Not that I have had to do that much as most of the armies that I fight just can't contain themselves and come to me.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Dec 10, 2006 4:11:54 GMT -5
heh no joke. I can't remember the last time I didn't get bum-rushed
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Post by Commissar on Jan 4, 2007 16:41:55 GMT -5
I went without any heavy weapons in my platoons for the longest time exept for the flamer and my guardsmen still managed to take out the space marines.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jan 6, 2007 5:55:27 GMT -5
taking out space marines is impressive
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2007 7:54:32 GMT -5
HW squads, they are amazing hehe I have 2 Platoons with 3 squads in each,. Platoon one is rigged with Lascannon/Plasma combo. So that's for your tak heavy/Marine army's. Platoon two is rigged with HB's and Grenade Launchers, for all your hoardes. HW's have won me many games but also lost many because of their 'slowness'. Sometimes can be a pain especially when you need to dig yourself out of the trench you've made and flee from some advancing nasties.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2007 11:03:02 GMT -5
If i take normal guards, which is very rare these days, then I slap in GL and ML into the squads.. 24in range with 2 blasts.. very nice.. plus lasguns.. can do some world of hurt.. that or just 1 blast or high str hit up to 60in.. works well.. stack them in nice fire lanes.. and make sure that there is more than 8 inches between squads so that they can get charged, destroyed, and then I can rapid fire, and use big guns with the other squads.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jan 9, 2007 3:18:37 GMT -5
I tend for variety with my normal squads - nothing like being able to put down a well rounded basic layer of line troops. for the most part, I write off my line squads having any actual impact on the battlefield with their heavy weapons, though I DO try to put them down with a modicum of intelligence (heavy bolters go in near enemy troop formations, etc) but really my response to the enemies deployment is my command squad which is about a metric ton of heavy weapon bases of all sorts. that's what does my heavy lifting and as such needs to be most intelligently deployed.
really though as far as the topic is concerned, there's no reason not to put a heavy weapon in the line squads - they were designed for 'fair' performance with all tasks - fair heavy weapon fire, fair special weapons, fair lasgun volleys, fair movement, fair leadership potential, fair melee potential - they're the IG infantry all rounder unit so to deprive them of one of their abilities just tends to make a jack of all trades type unit into a jack of MOST trades unit which doesnt make too much sense in my book.
edit**
oh yeah, another thought..how often does a guard infantry squad pay for itself on the field? like...rarely. how often does a heavy weapon make its points back? pretty much always. that pretty much seals it for me - proof that the heavy weapon is basically one of the most valuable pieces of the squad.
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