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Post by Melissia on Dec 12, 2009 23:31:53 GMT -5
I've never made a WFB list before, nor do I (yet) collect the armies... but I'm very tempted.
So far, this is what I've come up with... one of these two lists:
500 Pts
Heroes:
General: Master Engineer w/Long Rifle, Light Armor, Hand Weapon
Core:
9 Handgunners w/ Musician
--Marksman w/Long Rifle
9 Handgunners w/ Musician
--Marksman w/Long Rifle
9 Handgunners w/ Musician
--Marksman w/Long Rifle
Special:
Mortar
500 Pts
Heroes:
General: Captain w/Handgun,Full Plate Armor, Sword of Justice, Shield, Hand Weapon
Core:
14 Handgunners w/ Musician
--Marksman w/Long Rifle
14 Handgunners w/ Musician
--Marksman w/Long Rifle
14 Spearmen w/ Musician, Standard Bearer, Shields
--Sergeant w/Shield
I really like the Handgun units, so I want to make an army focused around them and related gunpowder units. These are what I have thus far, using Army Builder to help me make them. Would something like one of these lists be at least moderately competitive, IE, not gimped, even if it's not necessarily great? If I were to get these armies I wouldn't expect to win that often regardless, as I'm a complete beginner to WFB.
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Dec 12, 2009 23:44:37 GMT -5
I'd say that the first list would only be useful against a certain few armies, namely the ones with expensive, ranked heavy infantry and a fat hero that you can shoot down with your steampunk sniper rifles. The second is a bit more all-round, but I'd drop a few handgunners to get the spearmen up to at least 20 or 25, unless you know your opponents are going to be using small infantry units as well (which is non-standard, infantry units nearly always come in 20 or 25 in WHF because of rank bonuses and outnumbering). Or you might consider dropping the long rifles and the Captain's magic sword (I'd give him a great weapon or halberd) to bulk up the units a bit, it's probably worth it in such small games. I like both lists though, certainly something out of the ordinary.
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Post by Melissia on Dec 13, 2009 0:03:33 GMT -5
Was playing around with the Detachment rules, and came up with this:
Hero:
Captain (General) w/ Great Weapon, Handgun, Armor of Meteoric Iron, Icon of Magnus
Core:
11x Handgunners, Marksman w/Repeater Handgun or Long Rifle
-- 6x Spearmen Detachment w/Shields
-- 6x Spearmen Detachment w/Shields
11x Handgunners, Marksman w/Repeater Handgun or Long Rifle
-- 6x Spearmen Detachment w/Shields
-- 6x Spearmen Detachment w/Shields
Still have extra points to spend... might use it to up squad numbers like you suggest, might also drop the icon to help with more troops, too.
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Post by Melissia on Dec 13, 2009 0:17:39 GMT -5
A fourth possible list. A central formation of Handgunners with spearmen detachments on the flanks, ready to counter-charge, and a force of Swordsmen which the Captain accompanies to provide the main assault force.
Hero:
Captain (General) w/ Halberd, Pistol, Shield, Full Plate Armor, Warhorse w/Barding
Core:
19x Handgunners
-- Marksman w/Long Rifle
-- 10x Spearmen Detachment w/Shields
-- 10x Spearmen Detachment w/Shields
15x Swordsmen w/Standard Bearer, Musician
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Dec 13, 2009 1:30:13 GMT -5
Out of all you list, I like the fourth one the most. Though personally I'd split the Handgunner into 2 units of 10, as this would allow you reach out and weaken two units as they advanced on your lines. But I don't know how detachments work in the new book, so you might need the unit to be that large.
Second, I'd ditch the horse on your Hero, since you have no other cavalry, he's going to get shot to pieces. In its place, I'd try to fit in the Armor Or Meteoric Iron, or the Enchanted Shield, he'll have almost the exact same save, but you can place him with the swordsmen to give them more hitting power.
I guess I'm basically suggesting a fusion of your third and fourth lists, as those are both good starting forces, and provide you with a number of options on the table.
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Dec 13, 2009 2:39:45 GMT -5
I agree with Envoy, and suggest that you exchange the Spearmen detachment soldiers for something else, as spears only fight in one rank when charging, and it's the general concept that other troops (halberdiers, swordsmen, free companists) are better at counter-charging as they inflict more damage. A tactic I use myself is 9 soldiers with light armour, hand weapon and shield ranked up 3x3. It's a solid, durable and mobile detachment unit and great support for my pike unit (Tercio formations cough cough).
If you want to keep the spears it's no disaster, I just thought I'd mention it. Personally I'd also drop a few troops from both detachments and bulk up the main unit to 20, as detachments only need to be 5 to negate rank bonuses (and few people waste arrows at them).
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Post by Melissia on Dec 13, 2009 3:26:54 GMT -5
Okay, how bout a reversal of the fourth list?
Hero:
Captain (General) w/ Halberd, Pistol, Handgun, Armor of Meteoric Iron, Sigil of Sigmar
Core:
19x Handgunners w/ Musician
-- Marksman w/Long Rifle
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment
19x Spearmen w/, Musician, Standard Bearer, Shields
--Sergeant w/Shield
Alternatively:
Hero:
Captain (General) w/ Halberd, Handgun, Armor of Meteoric Iron
Core:
10x Handgunners w/ Musician
-- Marksman w/Long Rifle
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment
10x Handgunners w/ Musician
-- Marksman w/Long Rifle
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment
19x Spearmen w/, Musician, Standard Bearer, Shields
--Sergeant w/Shield
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Dec 13, 2009 3:55:23 GMT -5
I prefer the last list, but would move both detachments to the spear unit, they're better used there.
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Post by Melissia on Dec 13, 2009 4:10:01 GMT -5
So handgunners on the flanks, spearmen and swordsmen in the middle?
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Dec 13, 2009 4:27:51 GMT -5
Yeah, sounds neat. If the handgunners do happen to get charged, you can send in a detachment to them as they're going to be close by anyway.
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Dec 13, 2009 10:46:11 GMT -5
I'm with Makarova, the last list is the most solid. Your detachments are there to provide support by bolstering your Combat Res while denying your enemies rank bonus' (which are very very important to some armies). It's generally a good idea to keep them out of sight, but within charge range of your other units. That way you don't have to worry about the 1 in very small chance of the getting shot, and then lose the ability to deny ranks.
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Post by Melissia on Dec 13, 2009 11:26:05 GMT -5
So after recalculating the points and ensuring nothing has gone over....
499 pts:
Hero:
Captain (General) w/ Halberd, Handgun, Armor of Meteoric Iron
Core:
9x Handgunners w/ Musician
-- Marksman w/Repeater Handgun
9x Handgunners w/ Musician
-- Marksman w/Repeater Handgun
19x Spearmen w/, Musician, Standard Bearer, Shields
--Sergeant w/Shield
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment
-- 5x Swordsmen Detachment
As Envoy suggested, I might wait until eighth edition is released, possibly with a new Empires codex, before I get invested...
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Dec 13, 2009 11:27:35 GMT -5
Splendid!
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Dec 13, 2009 11:55:59 GMT -5
Very solid and very dangerous. I like it.
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