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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jan 25, 2013 12:04:56 GMT -5
Question: In the game I saw this past weekend, the Guard players were shooting both battle cannons, and then hull mounts, pintle mounts, and sponsons at full effect (i.e. not snap firing) on their Russes. I asked about this, thinking that the battle cannon going off meant that the other weapons could only snap fire, and multiple members of the club told me that the Leman Russ has the heavy vehicle rule, which means that their secondary weapons aren't subject to snap fire when the battle cannon is used? These guys are all very experienced players, but I could have sworn they were doing it incorrectly... Clarification please?
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Post by WestRider on Jan 25, 2013 12:48:49 GMT -5
They are wrong. All Heavy lets you do is ignore the restrictions based on Movement. It does nothing to override the Ordnance restriction.
It's a common misreading, tho, because the Rules for Vehicles and Ordnance jumble up two different parts, one of which has to do with movement, and the other of which has to do with snap-firing other Weapons.
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Post by Rommel's Eighty-Eights on Jan 25, 2013 12:50:53 GMT -5
They're right it's a F & A change for this edition, it's on GW site if you want to double check, Russ's are heavy now so we shoot everything at BS, but can only ever move 6 inches a turn.
88's
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Post by WestRider on Jan 25, 2013 12:59:27 GMT -5
They're right it's a F & A change for this edition, it's on GW site if you want to double check, Russ's are heavy now so we shoot everything at BS, but can only ever move 6 inches a turn. Read the Heavy and Ordnance Rules again. Heavy only says that the Vehicle always fires as tho stationary. Ordnance makes all other Weapons Snap Fire, even if stationary. |
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jan 25, 2013 13:06:49 GMT -5
It would appear that WestRider is correct. I just looked through the latest FAQ of the BRB, and it did not say that heavy vehicles are exempt from the ordnance rules with regard to having to snap fire their secondary weapon systems if they pop off their ordnance weapons.
Thanks WestRider! I'll have to let the club members know. Kind of shocked that they were messing that rule up, as normally they're all very on top of correctly playing things...
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Jan 25, 2013 13:07:45 GMT -5
WestRider is correct. Firing ordanace means you can only shoot other weapons as snap shots. There is nothing in the rules of Heavy Vehicles that allows you to get away from this, just that you can fire all weapons as if stationary. Ordance works the way it works regardless if you remained stationary or not.
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Post by vegna on Jan 25, 2013 13:28:40 GMT -5
mixed it up with lumbering behemoth i think from the codex, we lost that and i miss it  |
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Post by commissarrob on Jan 25, 2013 15:20:20 GMT -5
I've heard this argued both ways. Personally I think it needs an FAQ. The rules about ordnance and firing are under the moving and firing heading so that is where the argument stems from I think. If you take raw out of context then yes snap fire for the sponsons . However the way it is written it is following the heading and statements about vehicles moving and firing which tells me that it is referring to just that.
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Post by cheminhaler on Jan 25, 2013 15:36:51 GMT -5
Interestingly an Eradicator nova cannon is not an Ordnance weapon, so you could fire with all guns as normal rather than snapfiring. But not with a demolisher/ lrbt.
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Post by emptyhat on Jan 25, 2013 23:59:18 GMT -5
We got into it a bit here when the FAQ first came out. When the dust settled Westrider strode out holding the severed heads of all who opposed him.
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Post by vegna on Jan 26, 2013 9:42:45 GMT -5
ever other russ is fine, its just the battle tank n demolisher thats lost the use of sponsons, pintle and its hull mounted weapon basicly |
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Post by WestRider on Jan 26, 2013 14:17:11 GMT -5
I've heard this argued both ways. Personally I think it needs an FAQ. The rules about ordnance and firing are under the moving and firing heading so that is where the argument stems from I think. If you take raw out of context then yes snap fire for the sponsons . However the way it is written it is following the heading and statements about vehicles moving and firing which tells me that it is referring to just that. Even so, it is still two clearly distinct statements: 1) They can move and fire Ordnance. 2) If they fire Ordnance, every other Weapon fires Snap Shots. There is no way those two sentences can be interpreted to mean that Stationary Vehicles can fire their normal Weapons at full effect while also firing Ordnance. emptyhat: That's going in the sig ;D |
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Post by AshotNINJA on Jan 26, 2013 21:50:34 GMT -5
with that rule in mind... what if we were to fire the secondary weapons first... then the ordanance weapons second... considering they use the ordanance dice to hit, you theoretically wouldnt be rolling against your BS ... or would you have to miss the firing of the ord weapon.
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Post by WestRider on Jan 27, 2013 0:37:31 GMT -5
All weapons fire by a given Unit is considered to be simultaneous. Doesn't matter what order you roll the dice in, it's worked out exactly the same. It's on Pg. 13, under "Which Models Can Fire?"
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Post by dangerrod on Jan 27, 2013 10:01:32 GMT -5
All weapons fire by a given Unit is considered to be simultaneous. Doesn't matter what order you roll the dice in, it's worked out exactly the same. It's on Pg. 13, under "Which Models Can Fire?" Check and Mate again it would seem!! Danger Rod |
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