1000p vs Farsight Enclave

[aluwihar]

Hi
I would like some advice on this list. The biggest weakness is the lack of proper anti-tank and anti-air capability. I've no idea how the Tau plays, but the player said he likes mobility.

CCS:
- Vox
- Lascannon
- MoO (just threw him in to fill up points at the end)

PCS:
- Vox

2x Infantry squads combined with two lascannons. This combined unit has one vox.
3x Infantry squads combined with three Autocannons. This combined unit also has a vox.

2x Veteran squads
- 2x Melta in one squad
- 2x Plasma in the other
- Both are riding chimeras with camo and heavy stubbers

1x Leman Russ Punisher
- Camo
- Heavy Bolter sponsons

[gamma016]

As a tau player I'd say this list will de pretty well, but there are a few things I would change.

First off change the melta vets into plasma vets. Tau don't have many big vehicles, and if he is taking an enclaive list I don't think you will see many any ways. Your lascannon blob and the lascannon in your CCS should do for anti tank at this points level.

Secondly switch out that punisher for a battle tank. Punishers are only good if pask is behind the wheel, and even still they have very short range. Tau are quick so getting into that 24" range will be tough. The battle tank has longer range and is the bane of his XV8's. It can ID them and AP's them, and since they count as troops for farsight enclaive armies he will probably be fielding a bunch of them.

Thirdly, and this isn't a big thing, I' drop the stublers. They aren't worth the cost since they can only snap fire if you move. I'd say take those points and invest in dozer blades because there is nothing worse than getting Immobilised.

Other than those few things this list is rather solid. Here are my tips for beating tau.

#1 Take out his marker lights ASAP. They are a huge buff to the rest of his army so if you can get rid of them fast you are doing your self a huge favor.

#2 Try to keep him out of range with his fire warriors. They have longer range than our lasguns, but shorter than our heavy weapons. They have low leadership so taking out 3-4 a turn and forcing a bunch of moral test will be vary hard on him.

#3 One of the best ways to deal with riptides is to assualt them. They have low weapon skill, initiative, and attacks so they are pretty easy to tarpit. Other than that blast away with plasma and lascannons.

Hopefully this all helps, good luck.

[Casiarius]

One thing you're very likely to encounter when facing Tau is battlesuits making pop-up attacks. They can hide behind a solid wall, jump out and shoot you with a load of missiles, and then hide again so that it's impossible for you to shoot them back. Smart Missile Systems, commonly found on Broadsides, can simply shoot you from 30" away without any consideration for line-of-sight at all. Cowardly xenos!
If you lack any sort of decent indirect-fire weaponry (and the Master of Ordinance doesn't count) you may need to go and get them where they hide. Mechanized Melta or Plasma Vets are good for this task. Plasma has a higher rate of fire, while Meltaguns can one-shot a multi-wound suit.

Each Psychic Phase you get 1d6 free warp charge points. That's free firepower which you can harness with a psyker. Even a Level 1 Sanctioned Psyker with Divination has decent odds of making every weapon in a 50-man blob squad twin-linked with Prescience. That is unless, of course, you surrender this advantage to the less-evolved Tau by not taking a psyker.

What is the benefit of having two small blobs as opposed to having one big blob? You can shoot two targets, and they can fit in to cover more easily I suppose. But if you make all 50 men into one big blob:
- They can all be commanded with a single order, so you have more orders to go around.
- The whole blob can be buffed with a single psychic power.
- Attaching just one character (a Ld 9 Primaris Psyker, for example) can make the entire blob more likely to follow orders and stand and fight.
- More men means it's harder to inflict 25% casualties, and again they become more likely to stand and fight.

I agree with gamma016 that a Punisher without Pask is a somewhat lackluster tank. Without the rending and rerolls, I think a Hellhound (or vigorous use of Chimera heavy flamers) would be better at cleaning up infantry. However, I'm not a big fan of the Battle Tank in the current rules either. The Battle Tank is now one of the more expensive variants, and using the Battle Cannon messes up the hull and sponson weapons. You can get an Exterminator with Heavy Bolter sponsons for the same price. The Heavy 4 twin-linked Autocannon is murder on light vehicles like Piranhas, and it also poses a danger to aircraft. Meanwhile, all that AP 4 firepower can decimate Fire Warriors.

Hopefully you don't run in to too many Riptides in a 1000-point game, but if you do decide to assault any Tau unit, be aware that Tau units can overwatch for each other, so charging one thing may get you shot by multiple nearby units.

[aluwihar]

Thank you.

Casiarius - I split the blobs to direct the shots to different targets. Lascannons to heavy vechiles, and autocannons for light armour and infantry. See your point, but it drastically changes my flexibility.

Gamma - What do you mean "keep him out of fire warrior range?" Shouldn't I press forward to close the range?

I also wonder:

1. should I switch the MoO for some special weapons? I can buy 4 grenade lauchers for his price.

2. Or should I trade him for a psyker?

3. I thought about using my Hellhound, but that would make my armoured section considerably weaker. Isn't the Hellhound kind of a suicide weapon?

4. I really like the idea of the exterminator. I'll have to prox, but I guess that's ok.

[Casiarius]

The MoO can be awesome when he gets lucky, but it is just luck. He can easily go all game without hitting anything. Meanwhile, I consider at least one Primaris Psyker to be a must-have unit. So, I would trade him in for a down-payment on a Psyker.

A Hellhound is approximately as terrifying as a Leman Russ to most infantry, but more fragile, so they do tend to draw fire. They need to use their superior speed to insure that they always have cover against the most dangerous enemy units. Camo netting and dozer blades are not bad upgrades. If you want to be able to skirt the enemy and exploit the chinks in their armor, I think a Hellhound is more dangerous than an equivalent point value in outflanking Scout Sentinels. The high speed and ranged template allows a Hellhound to race over to an objective and simply burn the defending infantry right off of it. It can be well worth the risk. Still, if you really just want a slow-moving wall of firepower, then a cheap Leman Russ would be better.

[aluwihar]

I took a primaris psycher and hellhound with camo and dozer blade instead of moO and russ.

I also added dozer blades and removed stubbers for the chimeras.

Do you think that's a better list?

[Casiarius]

I do think the Psyker can contribute more to the list than the MoO. Other than that, it depends on what your opponent brings and how you like to play. If the Tau are highly meachnized, the Exterminator might be better than the Hellhound for killing vehicles. On the other hand, a very mechanized list might include only two basic Troops choices and the HellHound might make short work of them, leaving him without any Objective Secured units. It's hard to say.

The question of dozer blades or stubbers on the Chimeras is fairly clear cut though. The Chimera is a standard ground vehicle, so it can only fire ONE weapon accurately if it moves, and it already has two main weapons. So, if you plan to use the Chimeras as stationary pill boxes, then stubbers are good. If you plan to advance, take objectives, chase down hidden Crisis Suits, etc., then the stubbers are not so good and dozer blades would be better. I would personally take the dozer blades if I had to have one or the other.

[gamma016]

I still think you would be better off with a LRBT. With a Farsighy Enclaive you will be fighting crisis suits and lots of them. They are very mobile and can pack some serious weapons. Your best bet against them will be out ranging them with the battle tanks cannon. They are toughness 4 with a 3+ save, the battle tank is made for eating them alive. The hellhound will probably be gunned down before it can reach a target. Draw him into the open with your superior range then blast him when he can't jump and hide.

[Casiarius]

My objection to the default Leman Russ Battle Tank is nothing to do with the Tau, it's just the current rules. Sponson weapons are cheap and effective now, but they must snap-fire if you are shooting an ordinance weapon. The Battle Tank even nerfs its own hull weapon into snap firing.

If you want a Leman Russ that can kill heavy infantry like Crisis Suits, an Executioner is about the same cost, but its hull weapon works correctly, its Heavy 3 Plasma Cannon is highly unlikely to scatter clean off the target for 0 damage the way a Battle Cannon is prone to do, it can ignore the 2+ saves of Terminators and Iridium battlesuits, and you can give it cheap sponsons for added carnage.

In either case, Crisis Suits are agile enough that they never need to stand around in the open and get shot at, and there's no effective way to keep an army of deep striking jet pack infantry from getting in close if they really want to.

[aluwihar]

Great advice guys.

We're going to play 1500p instead. Just take my original list, No stbbers or dozers for the chimeras.

Add a drop pod of space marines with heavy bolter, melta, stormbolter and power fist. Captain has claws and combi melta.

Also changed the punisher to a regular russ, No sponsons. And added a exterminator with heave bolter sponsons. Both have camo.

The psycher is too expensive, but i could get an astropath instead of the moO.

[Casiarius]

Well, let us know what happens. I want pictures!

[aluwihar]

Well, what can I say. My first Warhammer 40k battle war a disaster.

He had a Riptide, Stealthsuits, Deepstriking Farsight with a bunch of armourkilling crysis suits. Some more crysis suits. SOme of those big bastards. A squad of kroot. And finally three small skimmers from Forgeworld.

Guess what. Everything except the riptide and stealth suits had drones. And the skimmers also had markerlights.

I let him deploy first... that wasn't smart. He ripped through my entire blob of 30 men, and my whole company command squad. No cover save. God I hate markelights.

The on the other hand had 2+ save on almost everything.

Still, I managed to kill Farsight with a battlecannon, and the kroot with my marines. But by round 4 I only had two marines, my Russes and my platoon command. I pretty much got tabled.

MARKER LIGHTS!!! I CURSE THEEEE!!

[Casiarius]

What? No pictures?
It sounds like valuable combat experience was gained, especially that whole thing about setting up first giving you the first turn. Unless you are doing something very sneaky indeed, there is seldom any benefit to going last. For a very shooty army that can ignore cover (which includes Imperial Guard) going first can be a huge advantage.
Markerlights are a big force multiplier for the Tau, but the Imperial Guard can accomplish essentially the same feats using senior officers and psykers. Want a blob squad that's highly accurate and ignores cover? You can set that up.
Is there going to be a rematch?

[aluwihar]

Definitely! He adviced me on getting a couple of Wyverns, and Pask/Yarrick, but I'm not sure. I agree on the Wyvern-puchase though. I really, REALLY needed indirect firepower as most of his army was in out of line of sight the ENTIRE game. He didn't have anything to really hurt the tanks, except the deep striking Farsight-bunch. So armour really helped. Also, my marines made mincemeat of his troops in cc. Sadly I couldn't deploy them close to his main force.

A huge blob with Yarrick, some Wyverns, one plasma vet in chimera, a Hellhound and three Russes would have been better I think. Problem is, he has a REALLY strong army.

CURSE YOU MARKERLIGHTS!

[aluwihar]

And about the orders, you can only give one order to each unit . Prescience + ignores cover though.... Niiiiice