1850 list vs dark angels(Wall of writing but need some help)

[solidog]

Hey every one I have not beat my mate since he got the new dark angels codex. He fields the lions blade detachment which is 6 squads of tatical marines all in razor backs with twin linked lascannons (for 20points a piece dam free transport) 2 assault squads 2 Devi squads again in 20 point razor backs 2 dreadnoughts in drop pods also free, squad of scouts and the usual characters. The size of assult squad and Demi squads will change abit and if it's large games he will bring termies but this is basically what he brings. I have tried all the combination of list I can come up with and nothing as cracked the unbreakable egg that is for me the loins blade detachment, I have run full amour full infantry mont'ka formations nothing has worked. I have come up with a middle ground list again so if you could tear it apart for me that would be great or if you have faced the same sort of force and won how did you do it.

hq 

Company command squad ( warlord)
lascannon 2 meltas kurovs aquilla chimera with heavy stubber

priest x2

primaris psyker

Troops 

platoon 1 

platoon command
4x melta

2x infantry squad melta in each

20conscipts 

2x lascannon heavy weapon teams

platoon 2

platoon command
4x grenade laucher

2x infantry squad melta in each

20conscipts

2x veterans
both with lascannon 2x melta chimera with heavy stubber

fast attack 2 squads of 2 sentinels all with lascannons

heavy support

basilisk

2x wyverns

55 points left to use thinking agias defence line.

sorry about the wall you have just read through any help would be great thanks.

[cheminhaler]

All of your units need to have some kind of anti-tank weapon - not grenade launchers. They'll never do anything to a rhino/ razorback unless you got lucky.
Conscripts - they aren't helping you here at all. You're better off with a squad of 3 autocannon teams, or something, to chip away those razorback HPs.
Actually the conscripts could help block places for the drop pod assault .. but that's all. And they might just all get burned by flamers if you get unlucky.

Sentinels might help ; multilasers and autocannons get more shots. Lascannons are very easy to miss with.
Still there are lots of things that I would have dropped in your list; veterans are a bit too expensive, the primaris psyker and priest could be exchanged for more lascannons.

Basically try to min/ max it as much as you can. Try something new; give every squad a lascannon and drop everything that has none.
Try a few different lists or better yet the Leman Russ formations in the MOntkka book if you have lots of tanks.

I've used a Gladius a couple of times. It gets unwieldy on smaller tables. Try pushing for a lot more terrain; that will hamper his units by making it slightly more difficult for them to support eachj other on occasion.

[solidog]

The conscripts are their to stay with my artillery just as a buffer from his drop pod dreds and assult squads, with the kurovs for my ccs they all get pref enemy so they are much more usefull. The veterans are there to speed up the flanks and take objectives early on till me foot sloggers get up their to support them. With all me las and melta I should be able to pop the tanks but when he as 40 marines ready to come out I thought some grenade launchers might help wipe out a squad or to but I can see ya point as long as they are not taken out from all the las on his tanks me basilisk and wyverns should do that. The priest are there for when he assults my conscript which he will I have played blobs with out priests and watched as a 50man blob walked off the board not nice. The psyker is there for pressiance on me basilisk need to make me pie plate count. as much as i would love to run a russ army I only have 5 so can't and his 8 twin linked lascannons plus the meltas on his dreds and the two squads of devis would tear it apart happened when I ran the mont'ka artillery maxed out and a full meck army. The trouble I find is I can either camp and get completely penned in or try and take control of the board and be wiped out real quick. Thanks for the comments.

[cheminhaler]

The main problem with his army is all the free transports and MSU. If he takes lots of razorbacks with lascannons then you're doing the right thing in going all infantry and some artillery. (I was going to suggest a super heavy but lets not go there, it will blow and kill anything near it)

Try using a different buffer. A platoon squad with a meltagun and lascannon and a PCS with 4 meltaguns should slag those dreads, so put them around your artillery, wait for the dread to land and then get really close, shoot it. You need to be within 6" for melta to be effective.

Do your vet chimeras not get blown up immediately with all those lascannons on the field?

[glutebite]

Against armor heavy lists I have successfully used Vendetta's with a Special weapon squad (3 meltas) in them. Grav shute insertion and let the suicide melta squads hammer away at some armor before they get taken out.

The Vendetta itself with 3 twinlinked lascannons will cause some pain.

[solidog]

I had that buffer set up in our last game when I ran full infantry, to protect me warlord and heavy weapon squads it worked well. But I needed to find some points for the artillery so I dropped them for conscripts with the heavy weapon teams and the 4 meltas with my warlord I should be able to take out the dreads and with 3 large blasts from the drop pods as well if I spread them out I should be able to keep enough alive to still give a decent shield for my artillery. I try and dash me vet chimeras straight in to a ruin and have buffer squads in front of them to give a cover save if I don't get first turn, and to be honest most of the las tries to get a shot at me artillery or any other heavy I bring. Do you not recon the vet chimeras are worth taking? Would save me 140points if I dropped them.

[solidog]

Hey glute bite tried using me vendettas but at least one if not both of his Devi squads is always kitted out with flakk missile launchers they make short work of me flyers. I even Tried a scion platoon with max melta last match in my infantry list didn't go so well, I misshaped with the command squad he placed them right back in me deployment zone and the second squad misshaped and delayed till turn four took out his warlord tho when they did come in but not worth the 205 points I had sunk in to them. But thanks for your advice buddy.

[cheminhaler]

You just got unlucky with the Deep Strike but stormtroopers with melta should cause serious concern. Maybe try the stormies again.

Good suggestion with the 'detta. The DA don't have the Hunter/ Stalker in their armouries. If he has taken all the devastators with flakk then they are pretty much your priority targets. If he's using razorbacks then he can't shoot from inside the razorbacks, unlike rhinos, so the devs should be more vulnerable to your artillery even if they're in ruins or something.

[solidog]

Yeah I was hoping they would do better than they did the plan was to deep strike next to each other give them tank hunter with orders from the tempest prime and cause some serious damage but just didn't happen but at 205'points by dropping it I have pretty much paid for my artillery. I could use me troops to deal with the dreads that drop in turn 1'leaving me artillery to deal with the devis and hope to have some lascannons left over from me troops to try and take out a razor back or two so I don't have 8'twin linked lascannons shooting at it the vendetta would help. Lots of ifs though before I can bring can bring it on safely enough.

[solidog]

Thanks for all the advice guy. How do we feel about me list?

[cheminhaler]

I think you should somehow shoehorn the Vendetta in there. Take out one squad of conscripts, 2 of the sentinels and maybe a chimera if the 55 points leftover doesn't cover it.

Then concentrate on those devastators, with almost everything. If the razorbacks all shoot your 'detta then just shoot all the razorbacks with your lascannons and meltas.

If you really just can't handle his list at all try either asking for a small points handicap (i.e you play 2k, he plays 1850) to cover the free transports or try using something totally different, like lots of stormtroopers, veterans and vendettas, maybe a double CAD to give you more 'dettas.