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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jul 27, 2009 16:46:06 GMT -5
Vox update: Voxes remain the same cost as in Codex, Imperial Guard. However their rules change. Any officer with a Vox may add an additional 6in to his order range if the unit receiving the order has a vox as well. Example: a PCS Officer is going to issue orders to a Vet Team. The Vets DO NOT have Voxes, so the order range is still 6in. Now, the same PCS issues orders to a Infantry Squad. Both the PCS and IS have voxes, so the order range becomes 12in. Note: The voxes LOSE the ability to reroll failed commands. If the officer is just repeating the order over the Vox network, theres no reason why he can't just shout it twice if he doesn't have a Vox and get a reroll from that. ------------------------------------------ @requiem: I like the Sniper special rules. What we're planning on doing is making it so you can attach a team of two to a platoon, with a 0-2 cap. That will change it up a bit from Ratlings, and represent Snipers attached to Platoons, like they have in Gaunt's Ghosts. @axiomatic: Thanks, your review helps a bunch! Sentinels-I wrestled with the pricing a bit, but landed on 15pts for no particular reason. I think bumping the points up is fine. Extra Armour is also a good idea, so we'll toss that in too. Punisher- I do like Pinning, as that would really make sense. Templates, eh, no so sure about. Snipers- See above. Half Vets- This was really intended to give a cheap troop choice for 500pt games, and make it easier for people to have decent armies as soon as they start collecting, but I see your point. Perhaps if we didn't allow them to buy Doctrines? Chimeras and HWs are not allowed, so thank you for pointing that out. Rough Riders- This had nothing to do with me, so I'll talk with Kai about it. MGK- I'm hesitant to do such a drastic re-shuffling of Vets within the FOC, and I'm VERY hesitant about upgrading platoons to Vets. The idea of facing 150 FRF, SRF shots that hit on 3+ makes me cringe, and giving HB teams the ability to hit on a 3+ is also a little unbalanced. I do like the option of upgrading the PCS, though. I'll have to talk this over with Kai. RT- That's too much for the 1.5 changes, but may fall into 2.0. My issue is the sheer volume of upgrade options. What I would say is they may take UP TO TWO of the upgrades that give them a USR (but can take the Meltabombs and stuff too, with no cap), but will always count as a Troop Choice. Again, we'll talk about this more when we start on 2.0, but that's the only way I can see of keeping it flexible enough to do what you want without making it a came breaker. Otherwise, they really become very much like a SM Tac Squad, with the ability to be upgraded to do any job. Also, remember, just because you would only take them to represent a certain regiment, doesn't mean others wouldn't abuse it. I do like the idea of DS Vets, though, so we may add that in an upgrade for the current Vet Squad. Keep in mind here guys, I'm also thinking as someone who would try to abuse these changes as well as someone who thinks they're needed. That's why I'm hesitant to add a lot of this stuff. Reds
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Post by Melissia on Jul 27, 2009 19:38:28 GMT -5
KaikelX: Well, it's not my project, so I won't tell ya how to do it. At the very least, you might wnat to simply add in customizations to existing squads instead of adding in new squads entirelly. IE, turning "Ratling Squad"s into "Sniper Squad"s, and adding in a Ratling upgrade and a Vetern Snipers upgrade, each one doing something different with a different cost.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jul 27, 2009 19:40:55 GMT -5
Melissia: The intention is to have them replace Ratlings, although Kai hasn't made that clear. We're changing it so it's a 2 Man team attachable to a platoon, like an SW squad, and keeping Ratlings. Reds
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Post by Melissia on Jul 27, 2009 19:42:38 GMT -5
well, that's what I meant. One could keep a basic Sniper squad (general BS3, two-man units like heavy weapons), and then have a Ratling upgrade (Stealth, more snipers in the squad) and a Sniper Veterans upgrade (better weapons, better attack rules?), etc...
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 27, 2009 20:54:00 GMT -5
Actually, Red's was the one behind the snipers thing. Don't look at me . Before you ask, I'm multi-tasking, so no major edits until I finally get home. Melissia, my attempt (rather bad one, I'll admit), was to create a general sniper unit that served as a conventional sniper. In fact, most of the mods I'm considering are to make the Guard a more WWII-Present force, as I feel the old WW1 feel....Just....Well...Doesn't feel right. Keep in mind, I'm not going to take away Horde Guard, I just want to add more options to create a more modern force.
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 27, 2009 21:13:09 GMT -5
In a seperate post (for organization), is everyone okay with the Rough Riders' changes?
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Post by Melissia on Jul 27, 2009 21:52:53 GMT -5
Sure.
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 27, 2009 22:52:02 GMT -5
Great!
How about the thing on the Voxes?
And before anyone asks, I'm just waiting for agreement on the snipers.
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Post by commissargaunt on Jul 28, 2009 6:30:06 GMT -5
I have an Idea for a new 0-1 take on a conscripts variant. 0-1 Planetary Levies In times of the greatest need a planet may draft ordinary citizens into the PDF to fight against a particularly dangerous or numerous foe.Equipped with nowt but what is left in the planetary governor's armories and their faith that the Emperor protects they charge into battle against the hardiest of foes. 40 points PDF Levy: Ws 2 Bs 2 S 3 T 3 W 1 A 1 In 3 Ld 7 Sv 6+ PDF Officer Ws 3 Bs 3 s 3 T 3 W 1 A 2 In 3Ld 9 Sv 5+ Unit size: 10 levies Weapons: The entire unit must have one of the following weapons sets: Lasguns- free Laspistol and close combat weapons- free Shotguns-1 point per model PDF Officers have a laspistol and close combat weapon. Upgrades: An additional 20 levies may be bought for +4 points per model The PDF levies may be joined by a PDF Officer at +20 points For every 10 Levies you may select one special weapon and one heavy weapon Grenade launcher-5pts Flamer-8pts two Levies may form a heavy weapon team with one of the following weapons: Crew served Heavy Stubber-10 pts Autocannon-15 pts Special Rules: Crew served heavy stubber: This is a crude and often inefficient Fast firing slug thrower found in the armories of many under equipped PDF forces. It has the following profile: Str 4 ap 6 Heavy 4* *if a one is rolled to hit when using a crew served heavy Stubber it jams and may not be fired in the next turn. Resolve all other hits as normal this turn.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jul 28, 2009 12:27:03 GMT -5
No such thing as a PDF Commissar. Commissars are assigned by me the Departmento Munitorum to every Guard regiment. PDF regiments don't need them, simply because the performance of a PDF is the problem of the Planetary Governor/Government, not the Imperium. Plus, it would be expensive in cool coats.
Reds: While I see no problem with Vets becoming a 'do everything' squad, in the sens they can become a multirole unit, I would suggest that this is an unlikely outcome simply because with the multiple upgrades the points cost of the unit is going to become iniquitously high. Remember, even if they have Knife Fighters, Infilitrate and Furious charge, plus three meltaguns/2 meltaguns and a Heavy Flamer, they would still be forced to close with the enemy to do any damage, and would remain insanely expensive and vulnerable.
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Post by commissargaunt on Jul 28, 2009 13:13:10 GMT -5
sorry RT, its fixed now. apart from that what do you think?
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jul 28, 2009 14:39:14 GMT -5
Well, it basically conscripts, so I'm not really seeing the point. If you want to see conscripts re-organised like this, then fine, but putting in a seperate unit makes no sense.
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Post by commissargaunt on Jul 28, 2009 15:01:27 GMT -5
The separate unit is to justify the use of heavy stubbers and a reduced set of wargear from guardsmen.
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Jul 28, 2009 17:23:49 GMT -5
No such thing as a PDF Commissar. Commissars are assigned by me the Departmento Munitorum to every Guard regiment. PDF regiments don't need them, simply because the performance of a PDF is the problem of the Planetary Governor/Government, not the Imperium. Plus, it would be expensive in cool coats. Actually dear RT, PDF's quite often get a Commissar attached to them, but usually only one per planet, who have responsibility for morale in the entire PDF army. =)
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 28, 2009 19:45:32 GMT -5
The separate unit is to justify the use of heavy stubbers and a reduced set of wargear from guardsmen. We could always add those in for normal Conscripts. In fact, Conscripts could represent Penal Leigion, PDF leivies, and generally any force of un-trained troops. Yeah, I think we should just add those in as options...
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 28, 2009 23:32:08 GMT -5
We can all agree on the additional weapon added to Conscripts right? I felt that if you wanted to limit the weapons choices, you could impose such a limitation on yourself, but also, I felt that those who wanted could still take the other weapon choices.
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Post by commissargaunt on Jul 29, 2009 6:45:47 GMT -5
Indeed but flamers should be more expensive since they're more effective with low Bs troops
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2009 9:12:35 GMT -5
@rt: I just had 3 friends look over your variety vet rules and all agreed that it would be a cold day in hell before they let me get my hands on rules like that. The consensus was that they were too open to abuse.
One friend added that if I was to ask for an individual selection of those rules to represent some special unit then he might agree to that single use.
Not that I'm going to vouch for their opinions, and not that i think you're rules are necessarily broken. I'm just relaying feedback.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jul 29, 2009 9:59:48 GMT -5
Which ones, Aximoatic? The originals, in which I included all the Penal Legion features, were fairly broken. The latter can hardly be described as broken, simply becaue they include nothing that wasn't in the last codex.
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 29, 2009 12:09:21 GMT -5
Alright, as I see it, we have three issues to work out before moving onto phase two (The part where we now tack on every well-thought out and designed unit we can possibly think of. Like Guardsmen with Jump Packs. Or attack dogs. Or Ymmot.)
Anyhow, said issues:
1. Snipers, although I am guessing the agreement is as an attachment to an Infantry Platoon, with Requiem's rules. 2. Conscripts with more expensive flamers. My personal opinion is that flamers are better for troops with low BS, which equates to commanders willing to give flamers to Conscripts, simply because they know the conscript WILL hit SOMETHING with it. 3. RT's Vets. The general opinion in my mind is that they are a bit overpowered, and while meaning well, would mean that it could get abused a lot. Maybe some sort of limit on the Special Rules upgrades?
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jul 29, 2009 12:17:07 GMT -5
RT's Vets can be tossed in to 2.0 to replace normal Vets.
As for 1.5, I say we add a deepstrike doctrine to them, which I need to mull over a bit.
Reds
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jul 29, 2009 12:51:14 GMT -5
DS, and make forward sentries include Infiltrate. Also, pray include an upgrade to WS4, and drop the cost of carapace by half.
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Jul 29, 2009 16:49:54 GMT -5
WS 4 should be standard for all Veterans.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jul 29, 2009 17:14:36 GMT -5
I'm not so sure, myself. Personall, it fits my veterans to a tee, mainly because they're all carrying melee weapons and look badass. But for all veterans, I feel it would be unneccesary. After all, if we use these Veterans to represent the armies no longer covered by the standard platoon system (Elysians, Harkoni, Tallarn) then it is unfeasible that such troops, highly trained as they are, would have close-combat training. It works for Catachans, and Drookians, Monians, Mercs (who actually use the ST rules at the 'mo), and DKoK Grenadiers, but for other, otherwise veteran armies, it's a touch unfluffy. It would also require an extra, and unwelcome increase in points cost. So I think it should remain optional.
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Jul 29, 2009 17:19:50 GMT -5
Veterans are quite likely to have been in some desperate close combat situations to stay alive. Plus Lieutenants get WS 4 without any proper reason, even if they're from more shooty specialised regiments.
I don't think it should cost anything either. Mainly it's just so that everyone who wants it can have a valid close combat unit (Vets with laspistol + ccw). It's not like WS 4 makes a huge difference, it's mainly just annoying that you have to run around with WS3 BS4 on your assault squads (CCS squads with laspistols for example).
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