David
Lieutenant
Posts: 101
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Post by David on Sept 1, 2009 3:55:41 GMT -5
Hi everybody,
As you undoubtedly aware, the new imperial armour updates are in.
One very interesting addition is the addition of the Vulture gunship for regular games of 40k.
It functions basically like the valkyrie/vendetta except it has no transport capabilities, no scout rule, has access to different weapon combinations and is a heavy support option. With basic armament the price is compatible to a valkyrie.
Now my question to you is whether you think the Vulture is worth its points, which tactical role you think it should play in an army and finally which weapon combinations you find most useful for that role.
1) I think the Vulture is worth its points, seeing as how it can bring a good amount of fire power in its basic load-out (comparable to the valkyrie with MRP and heavy bolters) but even more dakka in its premium role. With premium armament it not only brings firepower not available to the valkyrie or vendetta, but also makes it a juicy target for the enemy, leaving your transports in peace.
2) I believe the Vulture is tailored for short range light infantry hunting. Being a "dangerous" target which must be taken care of also draws a lot of firepower from the rest of your army.
3) For this role I think either the twin-linked punisher cannon with heavy bolter brings the pain or 4 MRP's with heavy bolter.
What are your thoughts?
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 1, 2009 5:46:47 GMT -5
The Punisher is, despite Requiem's pessimistic approach to the matter still quite an effective infantry killer, particularly given the cheapness and mobility of this varient. In essence, it will still permit you to decimate Orks, Eldar and other light troops, as will the MRPs.
Now, if I had to come down on the side of one or the other, it would be the Punisher, simply because it looks so much better.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Sept 1, 2009 9:34:33 GMT -5
I have a vulture model and usually only take it out during the Apoc games.
I probably wouldn't want to field it out on the regular game because as with all models in the guard you are only effective in multiples versus just having one model or unit being enough to turn the tide (Although Stracken is a close to being just that). Having a Vulture reduced to a skimmer and using it in regular games take a lot of fun out of what it is fully capable of doing.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Sept 1, 2009 13:08:13 GMT -5
I never said the punisher cannon was ineffective -- I'm sure it is, especially in pairs and even more so twin-linked. But it's not worth the points.
How to use a vulture would depend on the rest of your army...
Something that would seriously tempt me though, is dsing a 4xMRP vulture or two...
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Post by druchi on Sept 1, 2009 15:37:45 GMT -5
What are the flyer rules?
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Post by CaptainHindenburg on Sept 3, 2009 10:27:02 GMT -5
Some of them are you must move 36" and anything without an AA mount hits on a 6. Thats about all I know.
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Thunderbolt
Lieutenant
The Thunder you hear is from my artillery and the Bolt is the flash of light that you see upon death
Posts: 132
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Post by Thunderbolt on Sept 4, 2009 0:33:06 GMT -5
i am not sure if its worth the points yet.
i would take advantage of the Fast move and make it a TL missile Launcher, MRP setup as i like being versatile.
VS infantry i could move 12" and fire the frag missiles, MRP and the HB. and i have that TL Krak missile if i need to engage vehicles.
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Post by seed on Sept 4, 2009 2:13:01 GMT -5
I mainy play against tau nids orks and guard. the Vulture is suddenly looking very very good Mite have to make an atemp on building one from foam board.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 4, 2009 5:07:14 GMT -5
Actually, that number of hits/wounds/armour saves makes the Vulture effective against everything that isn't a Monstrous Creature. Specifically, Space Marines and Terminators.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2009 10:10:00 GMT -5
Wait, wait, wait. A TWIN-LINKED punisher cannon? I'm going to be all over that, 20 shots I get to re-roll if I miss? That's death on a stick, right there. I would imagine even monstrous creatures fall under that onslaught, and on something as fast as a Vulture, you could easily maneuvar around behind tanks or anything else. Woo!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2009 13:25:36 GMT -5
both setups sound awsome.
I love the MRPs they hit a ton of models and are counted as defensive, so you can fire all of them while moving 12.
Depending on the points cost the Twin linked punisher cannons may be a better option than the punisher tank. and as your main gun this could also move 12 and fire. with an average of 15 hits.
Where can i get the rules for this?
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David
Lieutenant
Posts: 101
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Post by David on Sept 21, 2009 10:15:36 GMT -5
Alright guys I have used the vulture twice now and can attest to its strength. I used it with twin-linked punisher cannons (costs the same as dual MRP). Which is about as much as a Valkyrie with MRP and Heavy bolters.
So what did I learn from its use?
1: If you spam armor 12 vehicles then the Vulture will usually be safe for a while (vendetta and chimeras getting most of the heat).
2: If the army contains a vendetta and a valkyrie, the vulture with punisher cannons fits in perfectly with fluff and purpose (next point).
3: While the vendetta can hunt armor, and the valkyrie is effective against large units (because of the pie plates), the vulture is effective against small units. The shear amount of wounds this baby can put on things like terminators, assassins, monstrous creatures and pathfinders, makes the vulture with punisher cannons a perfect compliment to the other two.
4: Moving flat out (i.e. getting a cover save) makes the vulture a less attractive target (compared to stationary chimeras) and as such can easily be used to contest objectives at the end of the game.
5: The punisher cannons are very effective even when the enemy has reached your lines as there is no chance of hitting your own units with these rotating bad boys (you may not want to shoot your MRP in such situations).
Well thats it, I hope you guys find this helpful and if you can I would suggest you try proxying this lovely unit and join in with your experiences with it. All feedback is appreciated!
David
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Post by seed on Sept 21, 2009 20:33:38 GMT -5
That was a good read David thank you for that. The only problem I see is with the section 5 I think one of the best parts is when you kill your own guardsmen. Proberly why people don't let me play doubles.. Only thing funnier than killing your troops is killing your allies troops.. Grey knights save the day Demo charge away lol.
Still think the Duel punshier is the way to go as other units can full the pie plate tossing role.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Sept 23, 2009 7:52:35 GMT -5
What are the flyer rules? From memory (as is without the book) Minimum move is 36" (No max move) when in flyer mode. No mention that they are limited to movement and shooting. Flyers with capability to become skimmers may switch from one mode to the other at the begining of a turn. All hits are glancing Any weapon that is not AA needs a 6 to hit. Weapons are reduce by 12" on range. Flyers may leave the board in one turn and return on board in the next. When they become available flyers may enter the table from any board edge. I think there is something in there about ordinance barrage as well, but have to look in the book to confirm. |
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 23, 2009 11:10:07 GMT -5
They can't be hit by blast or template weapons, either.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Sept 23, 2009 11:20:01 GMT -5
thanks RT. That is what I was going to look at when I got home. I wasn't sure about that one.
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Post by druchi on Sept 26, 2009 12:33:22 GMT -5
See, that's so much cooler than just counting them as Skimmers its almost demeaning to the Valkyrie imagine how epic it would be with flyer rules? *drools*
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 26, 2009 13:42:32 GMT -5
Yeah. Thing is, the Valkyrie counts as a Flyer in Apocalypse as well.
Super-mobile. As in - take an objective in one turn - mobile. You can buzz that thing onto an objective, drop off the Stormies/Veterans inside by calling in Hover mode. Sure, you class as a Skimmer for being shot at, and your men can't move, but hell.
P.S How do the Scout rules apply to Flyers? First-turn mass objective grabbing?
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David
Lieutenant
Posts: 101
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Post by David on Sept 28, 2009 10:20:59 GMT -5
In games of Apocalypse the Valkyrie is treated as a Flyer with hover mode.
Hence it loses its scout and deep strike rule along with its grav shoot insertion rule.
This is based off the Imperial armour vol 1 update 28 aug 2009. However I welcome any new data which may contradicts this.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 28, 2009 10:40:05 GMT -5
Really?
Where does it say Scout dosen't apply to flyers?
Or if you start in Hover mode, you're a skimmer anyway.
Curious...scout-moving flyers.....Tactical Genius...
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Post by Laughing Man on Sept 28, 2009 11:07:27 GMT -5
...I think we're going to need a bigger boat.
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David
Lieutenant
Posts: 101
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Post by David on Sept 30, 2009 8:51:59 GMT -5
Really? Where does it say Scout dosen't apply to flyers? Or if you start in Hover mode, you're a skimmer anyway. Curious...scout-moving flyers.....Tactical Genius... It does not say that scout does not apply to flyers, its just that these rules only apply to the valkyrie and vendetta while they are skimmers. Hence if you start the game as a skimmer you can make your scout move (up to 24") before the game begins. If you start the game as a flyer you can move to anywhere on the table on your first turn (must move more than 36). Although there might be a reason to start the game as a skimmer, considering the extra vulnerability (regular ballistic skill to hit) and chance to jump on objectives on the first turn anyway as a flyer, I fail to see the point. Mmm, jaws references are always welcome...however this one might require a bit more explanation... |
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Post by Kassill on Sept 30, 2009 19:28:51 GMT -5
Yeah Punishers are the way to go, although the MRPs are tempting... ;D
P.S. IM LOVING THE ARMOUR BATTLEGROUP!
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 1, 2009 10:29:34 GMT -5
Actually, does it?
Does the Scout rule only apply to the Valkyrie as a skimmer? Where does it say that?
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Oct 1, 2009 10:51:09 GMT -5
I would have to agree that the scout rule doesn't apply to flyers since they do not come in until 2nd turn.
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