Tactical discussion: How to use Combat squads?

[Machine Gun Kelly]

How is the best way to use combat squads?

This is how I plan to use them.

Combat squad 1: Sgt tooled up for CC.
Combat squad 2: Plasma gun, Plasma cannon or ML and a LC armed Razorback.

CS 2 with Razorback stands back and give fire support to the advancing CS 1.
...........................
Or is it perhaps better to do this setup.

CS1: Sgt armed for CC, flamer/melta
CS2: HW

CS1 in Razorback rushes for objective while CS2 stays back and give fire support. Razorback stays with CS 1 to give cover and add fire strenght to them.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

Hm, interesting...

setup number one is pretty neat, but that squad with the sergeant tooled for CC probably won't get too far on foot.

Best to give the advancing squad the transport I think...

though maybe not a razorback with twin-linked lascannon.


I have my own lascannon razorback...

in my most current SMurf list I have it attached to a squad that has a plasmacannon, plasmagun, and sergeant with stormbolter.

The sergeant and plasmagun ride in the razorback at full speed on turn one, disembark on turn two. Squad hangs out around the transport and opens fire on anything within 24 inches.

[Callus]

How about:

Combat squad 1 - Power weapon, Plasma pistol, Plasmagun, Razorback w/LC

Combat squad 2 - Plasma cannon

That's usually how I run my Dark Angels when I combat squad them, obviously not in annihilation games, then I leave them together.

Callus

[Machine Gun Kelly]

Ymmot (M.I.A):After dropping CS1 does your Razorback stick around or does it careen off to find something else to do?


@ Callus:I guess you mean a sgt with powerweapon and plasmapistol, since you can't have a plasma gun and meltagun.

Does this mean that you use one of CS1 to go tank hunting while you keep Cs 2 back?

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

Stick around I'm thinking, it may scoot around a little but it should probably be making use of that pricey lascannon as much as possible.

[Callus]

Oops sorry, changed it now. Yeh the squad in the Razorback goes off looking for something really big and expensive to kill (LC, plasmagun, Powerweapon combo) while the other squad sits and camps on a home objective and takes pot shots with the plasma cannon. Also does great against any terminators (or equivelants) that deepstrike behind my lines.

I sometimes give the Sergeant a Powerfist just to make sure that whatever I point his squad at dies but it does involve investing rather alot of points in a teeny little squad and he doesn't get to use it if the plasmagun rapid fires.

I usually run either Power weapon, Plasma pistol and Plasmagun OR Powerfist, Meltagun.

Callus

[Machine Gun Kelly]

Do you use the CS in tandem, or do they target different enemies?

Is it worth it to get the plasmagun, close to the enemy to get rapidfire, while risking getting charged. Considering they are only five men it most likely will be gone.
Or is it worth it keeping it back with the other HW CS to take advantage of range?

Is it worth it to get the sgt tooled up for CC or could it be a viable choice to give him a boltgun? Especially if you use a assault CS to make the charge, and the CS s giving fire support.
=
CS 2 firing target from long range, CS 1 rapidfire from close range, Assault marine CS charge to take care of remnants.

[cheminhaler]

Are you running a fully mech list, MGK, or are you using only one or two transports?

[Machine Gun Kelly]

Actually I am trying to avoid talking about my list. People have a tendency to get stuck on the list.

I am more trying to get a discussion going on how to use combat squads in general and see if we can figure out new marvelous ways to use them.

But to answer you question, it will be a heavily mechanised list.

[cheminhaler]

Apr 6, 2010 14:17:30 GMT -5 Machine Gun Kelly said:

Is it worth it to get the plasmagun, close to the enemy to get rapidfire, while risking getting charged. Considering they are only five men it most likely will be gone.
Or is it worth it keeping it back with the other HW CS to take advantage of range?

I would put the plasma gun with the PC, but if it was a meltagun I would put it in the other CS, just in case a tasty vehicle needs cooking.

[Callus]

That's a good idea cheminhaler, have the sergeant with a Power weapon/Power fist go off in the razorback with combat in mind, that way it isn't hindered by the rapid firing Plasmagun but it's decent range means it should still be able to support the Plasmacannon... I never considered this, I'll have to try it out.

And MGK, in smaller games I find the 2 combat squads need to go after different targets but in bigger games I tend to have enough units that I can target a single enemy unit/model with both and make sure it deffinetly dies.

Callus

[Machine Gun Kelly]

I agree to the point of having an assault weapon in the mobile CS. You could add in a melta bomb on the sgt for some extra goodie.

How about working with three squads divided into combat squads.

1 devastator squad, divided into 2 squads with 2 HW in each.
Razorback that can be loaned to a tactical CS

1 tactical squad without HW, divided into:
CS1, sgt with powerfist n melta bomb.
CS2 melta.
Razorback.

1 assault squad, divided into two CS.

This will make for 6 small squads that can attack one or two objectives. Would that make for an hard nut to crack for the opponent?

[Callus]

That's similar to something I did with my Angels, I used to combat squad the devastators and a tactical squad, leaving all the heavy weapons from the dev squad in one CS and the heavy weapon from the tactical squad in another, I'd leave them to camp objectives and provide fire support for the other two CS with the tooled up sergeants and special weapon in the squads' razorbacks.

I prefer to leave assualt squads together though cause you really need 10 of them to do anything worth while in bigger games.

Callus

[Machine Gun Kelly]

You could let both assaul CS charge the same target.

The only reason to divide them into CS in that case would be to force the opponent to sacrifise two units fire at least to shoot at the assault marines.

Perhaps that is a good reason to divide squads into CS. Rather than giving yourself more flexibility, you force the opponent into using up more units into destroying yours.

Eg. two CS = two full opponents units firing ,minimum, to destroy them.

[Callus]

I suppose, but it means each CS is alot more likely to break and run away (1 less casualty to take test and lowered LD in one CS due to lack of sergeant) but I guess it also means that if your opponent fires at one and they do break it means only a single CS is legging it as opposed to the whole unit. This isn't much of a probablem due to ATSKNF but I thought worth pointing out.

Callus

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

Yeah, that can be a pain, especially when jump packers fall back 3d6 inches.

[ElegaicRequiem]

Also, the second assault doesn't get hit if the first keeps the target locked. Take an assault combat squad with a combat shield, and put that in the first 'wave.'

I'm not really a fan of the combat squad, myself, but it works for some.

[Callus]

I think it's worth considering at games under 1000 points as you have very few units and it can double your tactical options, but in larger games i feel it weakens your units unnecessarily and I prefer to keep them all together.

Callus

[ElegaicRequiem]

Small games are where marines are at the greatest disadvantage from their numbers. They're already outnumbered 4:1, it'd be madness to further thin them with combat squads. Playing BA doesn't help me with that, but I feel like I didn't see combat squads in the new 'dex anyway, so... *shrugs*

[Machine Gun Kelly]

How about CSing a devastator squad. That way you can get two squads. One AI and one AT.
You can get the AT (Multimelta) into a razorback to go tankhunting.
.....

I have a feeling that CS ing you squads turns SM into rock hard eldars. A very hard army to use but hard hitting if you manage to use it well.

So this is my battleplan for using a Combat squad orientet force(and no battle plan survives contact with the enemy).

Strike force Beeblebrox.

Forces:
Assaults squad-Zaphod
ACS1 sgt
ACS2

Tactical squad-42
TCS1 sgt (stormbolter), Borrow DRZ.
TCS2 (SW), TRZ
Tactical Razorback TRZ.

Devastatorsquad-Vogon
DCS1 sgt,2HW
DCS2 2HW
Devastator Razorback DRZ

Plan of attack

The two Razorbacks takes point advancing towards target.
ACS1 and ACS2 advance hidden behind them, close enough to lick the armour plates.
Advantage:
Blocks LOS and gives coversave to ACS1&2
Disadvantage:
If Razorback explodes it will hurt manu SM.
Easy target for Pieplates.

DCS1 and DCS2 give cover fire.

When Razorbacks comes within rapid fire range, TCS1 and TCS2 disembark using side doors, forming a fireline.
Advantage:
Razorbacks helps shield parts of the tactical squads.
Tactical squads gives cover save to assautsquads.

TRZ and DRZ fires upon target.

TCS1 and TCS2 rapid fire upon target.

If deemed necessary DCS1 fires upon target, otherwise find another target.

If deemed necessary DCS2 fires upon target, otherwise find another target.

ACS1 and ACS 2 charge the target.

When target destroyed, ACS 1 and 2 consolidate towards own lines, to give room to the TCS to hold the objective.

[ElegaicRequiem]

Even in dev squads, the guys with just bolters make good ablative wounds for the overpriced HW-toting marines.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

Right, a few guys with bolters in the dev squads are a great help and being able to devide your fire with two squads ain't bad either.

BA get cheaper Devestators.

Why...?

[Machine Gun Kelly]

Because GW are planning a new SM dex, with cheaper Devs.

BTW has anyone tried CS-ing a devastator squad?

[Laughing Man]

To counter the issue of the lower leadership issue, why not take someone with rites of battle making the whole army leadership 10 anyway.

[kadavah]

Apr 30, 2010 7:39:43 GMT -5 Machine Gun Kelly said:

BTW has anyone tried CS-ing a devastator squad?

The simplest trick is to divide them into a Bolter-Armed squad to add a bit of 'free' weight to a regular Tactical assault, but that means that every casualty the HW squad takes is immediately one weapon down.

Better to split them into two teams of two HWs each - perhaps a squad with 2 Lascannons for long range AT and a squad of Heavy Bolters, deployed further forward for anti-troop capabilities.

Razorbacks are always fun, too, and I love their combination of mobility, troop carrying and firepower - especially when Blood Angel vehicles are fast!