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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Apr 1, 2008 9:15:22 GMT -5
Turtle boy what about your conscripts? They can absorb lot's of wounds and tie up most units in cc for a long while.
Once took on a Wraith lord, a squad of Harlies, Howling Banshee, and striking scorpions for three turns.
They took some with them too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 14:45:07 GMT -5
All this talk of Grey Knight Terminators neglects to mention things like genestealers - enemies who strike first and can relatively easily ignore the armour save (as they have a high volume of attacks, rolling sixes isn't unlikely.) Honestly, it is Genestealers that are preventing me from getting a squad of Grey Knights.
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Post by Srgt. Master on Apr 1, 2008 15:12:06 GMT -5
well, im not sure agienst orcs and most 'nids, but the last chancers are pretty good at close combat, iv managed to get a good ammount of hits and kills in CC (2 base attacks, add extra wep and charge aaand.... ),but ive never tried agienst the 'nids.... but so far the LC's can hold out pretty well, since they auto-pass moral/LD/pinn tests, and specialests get wargear (plasma pist+power sword+carapace ) they cost alot but its a good choice for CC
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Apr 2, 2008 14:37:07 GMT -5
conscripts are great for the points but only as a counter assault unit. I was a bit thin on my main line and had to use them to fill a gap and act as shock troops to stop an assault from happening and it was just ugly. they broke and ran due to lack of die hards and it collapsed my whole formation I forgot that ripper swarms count as 3 wounds/base for combat resolution so I was badly outnumbered by the swarm of what was originally 10. was really wishing I had my hellhound in that game man..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2008 8:58:35 GMT -5
Hmmm good point. It's easy to just see sonscripts as disposable bodies, but without a commissar to taughten their leadership resolve, they are fairly ineffective at either shooting or fighting - and a "tar pit" can move quite quickly once running.
I'm starting to think that basic infantry squads at 60 pts each are simply the best close combat option - the problem with both this and the conscript option is board space compression. You literally fill your deployment space...
What about using Gaunt instead of an independent commissar with conscripts - wouldn't that make them a fearless 50 man squad with a power weapon included?
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Post by acolyte on Apr 6, 2008 15:55:34 GMT -5
you tried a unit of celestines from witch hunters? flamer, heavy flamer, mounted in an imomlator with cannoness? hello flamer death and u still get hell hounds
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angelusmortis
Captain
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. -Mark Twain
Posts: 210
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Post by angelusmortis on Apr 6, 2008 16:43:38 GMT -5
All this talk of Grey Knight Terminators neglects to mention things like genestealers - enemies who strike first and can relatively easily ignore the armour save (as they have a high volume of attacks, rolling sixes isn't unlikely.) Honestly, it is Genestealers that are preventing me from getting a squad of Grey Knights. I pointed that out in my post about the GKT. Genestealers are not a problem for them. You seem to forget that they have a buttload of Stormbolters and the ability to take 2 Incinerators. If they can survive all that, then there wont be much left to fight. Rending only works when you have a buttload of dice to roll. Two or three Genestealers aint gonna cut it. Twelve yeah...three...no ahh-ahh.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Apr 7, 2008 7:34:23 GMT -5
Mind, 'stealers aren't a problem for a guardsman anyway. 5+ save- joke. 4+ save- still a joke (Grenade launchers, heavy bolters, autocannons, all the heavy weapons can rip the apart)
But for GKT, stealers are a problem. If your opponent uses the enhanced carapce - (4+) then your stormbolters aren't much use, and he only has to kill three of your models to make the entire points cost back.
Each stealer has what -4 attacks. 12 attacks, thats two rending kills right there. And four armour saves.
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Post by Srgt. Master on Apr 27, 2008 10:57:51 GMT -5
just run them down with a tank ;D thats what ive done, that or tri-hvy bolter with heavy stubber but generally i just get in cover and shoot, that way i get the first attack, and if theres buildings, set them up high.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Apr 28, 2008 11:59:09 GMT -5
lets not forget the 2d6 armor pentration for rending my stealers have ripped right through the front of a predator on lucky rolls
god I love those ugly buggers
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2008 21:05:31 GMT -5
The best advice I can give:
Concentrate on one thing- and one thing only- at a time. I've been able to use massed volleys of long-range fire to make what was once a 30 Ork mob turn tail and run in just one turn of shooting.
He's gonna be packed tight, so take two Lemans, a Basilisk, and three Hellhounds to put down as many templates as possible.
Some Hardened Vets with Xeno-Fighter: Orks and three Flamers would go a long way, as you can infiltrate them. The Orks have two choices- ignore them and get burned, or waste turns assaulting them. Either way, you've successfully provided a distraction.
Take Ratlings to hold down problem single-model orks, like a Big Mek with a Shokk Attack Gun or low-model count Orks like Lootas or Flash Gitz.
Let's look at the numbers- The requisite- or at least legal- table is 6' x 4'. That's 24"-36", depending, that he must slog to get to your lines. Disregarding WAGH!, that's a full 4-5 turns of slogging he must do to get to your lines, plus the 6" for assault. With WAGH, you cut that down to 3-4 turns.
If he can get to you in one solid wave, that's it, you're done. Throw everything you have at him and hope for a glorious death.
If, however, you can distract him with your Hellhounds, Ratlings, and various Elites, his army will break into several smaller, more manageable chunks. From that point on, assess the various threats on the board and act accordingly.
Orks don't have that many solid anti-vehicle weapons. Their Rokkit Launchas are only 24" range, and with BS 2, they won't be hitting much. Use your tanks aggressively to block routes and hold up his mob. Always watch out for their one big Ordnance weapon, the Big Mek with a Shokk Attack Gun.
If you want to be really mean, use the Drop Troops doctrine to drop some Sentinels or Glory Boys behind his lines
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Post by Srgt. Master on Apr 30, 2008 19:09:02 GMT -5
or, you can go with last chancers (sensing a theme yet?) the get infiltrate/deep strike free, and are tough to kill with things like carapace, bionics [give the necron I will be back rule on a 6+, i checked] and maybe just a master-craft powerfist ;D or give them plasma or power swords. then just close the distance, time it right.... and assult first, you get a boat load of hits (eliminated a SM squad in 1 st assult turn ) even if they kill some of the LC's, the can get back up (execpt on ID cases.... ) in any case, they have a decent chance of winning, due to hash disceplen, and hince- will never get pinned, turn tail and run, or have moral broken! [shadow=red,left,300] [glow=red,2,300]Last Chancers RULE!!![/glow][/shadow]
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on May 1, 2008 13:23:01 GMT -5
My soultion to this problem is an Inquisitor loaded up with henchmen with flamers and powerweapons.
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Post by Count Elakor on May 3, 2008 13:12:52 GMT -5
the best CCthing from the IG is the HQ. comander, priest, commisar with carpace, power sword, evisirator, fist. 3vets with pistol/CC 1guard with flamer. maby psyker with force weapon and HSO stats. remember trademark, baner, medic. but the most important thing is to suport your HQ with a platon that gives you 30-60 men with over 200 attacks on the charge(best case) you also got sergants with power weapons. If you want it you can have about 30attacks that ignore armour(vets, HQ, sergants, platon comand). you hit on 4+ and wound on 5+(usualy). that shold kill at least 30marines. it is a wery expensive assault force, but it can potentialy annailate everything in 1 round. I was wery pleased with the result, I killed the entire SM assault force in 1 round of combat.
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angelusmortis
Captain
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. -Mark Twain
Posts: 210
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Post by angelusmortis on May 4, 2008 6:12:40 GMT -5
But for GKT, stealers are a problem. If your opponent uses the enhanced carapce - (4+) then your stormbolters aren't much use, and he only has to kill three of your models to make the entire points cost back. True enough about the Stormbolters, but I wasnt counting on the AP. I was counting on a butt load of saves and two shots per termy at 24"(usually they will be coming thru cover to take advantage of the saves making SB AP irrelevant). Then thats where the Incinerators shine with wounding on 2's, AP 4 and no cover save. Thats a lot of crispy stealers. Setting up for the kill is the trick though, and key to it working against the stealers. Takes a bit of finesse but isnt really too difficult. Thats the whole key to the DH list, is its a finesse army. More so than IG. You have to use every unit to its max potential with exact timing when its best to use them in conjunction with other units that compliment it, or your list will be chewed up. Takes a lot of lost games to figure them out, but once you do they are lethal. I lost around 80% of my games with them until I finally figured them out. After I got it finally, I average about a 70% win rate. It was a painful and frustrating process until it finally paid off though.
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