Defensive tactics

[Deleted]

Hey everyone! I'm new to IG and I want to make a defensive army. I was wondering if you guys could give me tactics and advice on playing a defensive infantry army. I really like Basilisks and also wanted to know if 3 supported by a horde of infantry is a viable option. Thanks in advance for the replies!

[Rolling Thunder]

In a word.... yes. Though two basilisks and a leman russ demolisher is even better.

[sammy1979]

there is no better way to reach out and touch your opponent and ruin there day, the oldest and in my opinion the most reliable technique for guard. is the gun line. spread your bassies out so they cant be chain attacked if you go for RT's demolisher technique which is also superb and well tested. put that in the middle as a road block a bassie on each side well dug in with indirect fire roll with bags of inf and auto cannons/las cannons and your going to upset your opponent, then if there the sneeky drop type enemy, prepare your killing ground a 2000pt army should enable you dominate every inch of your side of the board,
so you can, by select postioning of your troops prepare the only area they can drop into. then when they do, "thinking there all that", its time to put the demolisher main gun on them, its very funny watching a 600pt terminator squad that deepstriked getting banged by your demolisher, and a bassie, put some rough riders or armoured fist in with your horde though so if there are objectives to capture you can do it after banging all his CC troops with your bassies,

[Deleted]

If you want a defensive competive list go and do
Heavy weapon plattoons
Camo
Sharpshooters
and a autocannon in every squad

then bring counter attack with sentinels w/ more autocannons

"Why autocannons?"
They are the best weapon the guard have being the most flexible, damaging, and distance
Camo makes you resistant to fire fights with tau and you can out shoot them with a ton of autocannons
Counter Assult Saves you from the small units that make it through your fire power and tie your unit up sentinel are perfect for that.

[Deleted]

Oh and I don't suggest basilisks only if you are fighting tau or any shooty army most people overlook the 36 minium indirect fire(no basilisk should shoot direct lol) so if you face a combat oriented army you will only have 2 turn of shooting at them, Yet you might want one because most likely they will hide their units behind cover.

[Deleted]

vulture said:

In a word.... yes. Though two basilisks and a leman russ demolisher is even better.

That's how I do it .. and it's VERY effective ...

Just make sure to pay the points for the bassies to be able to fire indirect. It's worth it!

Oh ... and mortars .. and thudd guns ...

[angelusmortis]

To quote my good friend Carl von Clausewitz, "the best defense is a good offense." I have found that to be true in real life (spent 14 years in the US Army), in computer wargames (from strategy to FPS (you guys all know rusher > camper), and in 40k.

Static defense, is at best, highly dependent on your opponent. He will get to choose where to attack. This could be very problematic. For example, take a SM army. Say he has some mobile choices such as Speeders, maybe a bike squad and some Tacs in Rhinos. If they come on as reserve he can bring them all on at one small part of the table. Now you have the problem of perhaps half or less of your list fighting almost all of his. This is takes away one of the Guards biggest advantages, and thats numbers.

So, while it sounds good on paper, in reality, I think a more mobile IG force is a better choice. Even foot slogging Infantry moving and firing is better than just plopping them in cover and waiting for your opponent to mass his forces on a small part of your line. IMHO, an elastic defense is by far superior to a static one.

For an elastic defense, I would suggest 2 Platoons of foot sloggers, support by at least 2 Armored Fists(Vets in Chimeras would be even better) and 2 Tanks (LRs or LRDs, whatever you fancy). Tossing a Basilisk in for fire support wouldnt hurt either. You can support this with AT Squads, FS Squads and Special Weapon Squads from the HQ Platoon as well. This sort of set up allows you to set up two obstacles (the foot sloggers), supported by fire from the Heavy/Special weapons in the HQ Platoon and the Basilisk, and allows you a heavy duty maneuver element of the Armored Fists/Tanks to either act as a Quick Reaction Force to plug holes or counter attack, or even to press the attack if neccessary. This, IMHO, is a much more effective method of defense rather than stand and shoot.

EDIT:Just checked and with proper use of doctrines you can get a HQ Platoon w/2 AT squads, 2 FS Squads, 2 Inf Platoons, 2 Vets in Chims, 2 Armor Fist, 2 LRs, and a Basilisk for 2k pts.

[knight (M.I.A)]

Static defence doesn't work that well (guess why most armies dropped it after Germany started with Blitzkrieg tactics in WW2, and just look at WW1 and what it got them)

Go for elastic defence, counter assaults, coordinated retreat at certain areas of the battlefield.
As for weapons it depends on your enemies.
If they throw lots of infantry against you go for mortars and heavy bolters. If they have lots of light tanks go for autocannons and lascannons.
In your situation you should even consider taking no Demolisher and no Basilisks. Take 3 normal russes with 3 heavy bolters instead or if your opponent fields lots of tanks take a lascannon and 2 heavy bolters.

For doctrines I'd go for:
Veterans, Die Hards, Iron Discipline, Close Order Drill and Special Weapon Squad
Those doctrines leave you really cheap infantry, but they won't run away in your turn and can even face marines in CC and have quite a good chance of winning

[Rolling Thunder]

The issue with static defense is not that it its 'bad' per se, but rather is that it is

a) Massively predictable and overused.
b) only useful in certain situations.
c) Only truly effective if the terrian allows for it, much like with offensive operations.

[knight (M.I.A)]

As soon as the enemy is going for your lines static defence is useless. If you face an enemy who is as shooty as you it works. Otherwise your fireline will provide the enemy troops a good line they can fight along from CC to CC...

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

I really agree with Knight on a LOT of what he's on about here...

40k is predominantly a game of blitzing, which as Knight so adequately explains:

knight said:

Static defence doesn't work that well (guess why most armies dropped it after Germany started with Blitzkrieg tactics in WW2, and just look at WW1 and what it got them)

Go for elastic defence, counter assaults, coordinated retreat at certain areas of the battlefield.
[/quote]
this is a great way to work a 'defensive army.' It is my method of operation, but it tends to burn thru your troopers at a pretty brutal rate. you need space to position troops safely to counterassault from a position which is far enough away from the fight that the chance of your enemy overrunning your lines and consolidating into the counterassault squad is reduced or preferably nil.

coordinated retreats are also the province of having space with which to do so. space is gained thru making it. ideally, a guard infantry main line will flex forward into no-man's land to stall the enemy and buy the fire support elements additional time to gun down incoming enemies before shooting becomes a hopeless thing.

In your situation you should even consider taking no Demolisher and no Basilisks. Take 3 normal russes with 3 heavy bolters instead or if your opponent fields lots of tanks take a lascannon and 2 heavy bolters.

alternately, I would consider assault oriented troops! if you're stalling your enemy at midfield to buy your fire support elements extra volleys of shots to thin the enemy, you're sacrificing whole squads of guardsmen at a time. this takes it's toll. if you do a great job of thinning the enemy out, but have no one left to break the assault, repel it, and deliver the 'bullet to the head' of your opponent with, then your sacrifice is for naught.

you >know< you've won as an imperial army when things have gone from shooting to assault and you break contact with your enemy in close quarters and return to shooting. this is the situation we all want to strive to produce in our games, and it is the sign of a successful defense, BUT we must have troops to repel assaults with; it is a >critical< part of the IG army (!!). if you don't have this aspect to your army, you are basically playing for 2 or 3 turns then getting beat for a couple/few turns and will lose many games due to your inability to 'pull the spear out of your gut and shoot your enemy in the face.' <--speaking here in an overview-ish sense with the enemy assault being like a spear that impales your lines and the IG's tendency for shooting meaning our deathblow is dealt thru shooting.

For doctrines I'd go for:
Veterans, Die Hards, Iron Discipline, Close Order Drill and Special Weapon Squad
Those doctrines leave you really cheap infantry, but they won't run away in your turn and can even face marines in CC and have quite a good chance of winning

Die Hards is a great doctrine for "easy mode" regarding sacrificing squads to the meatgrinder at midfield to buy your fire support extra turns of shooting. you will want to look at other morale boosting things like a HSO and a vox network - stuff that jumps up your morale will be important so your troops 'stick in' to hopeless melees instead of breaking and running since they're vastly outnumbered and obviously about to die

Iron discipline is a morale booster - 100% goodstuff and it's nice and cheap.

close order drill is important because it buys you all your attacks if you can form up into close order as you charge (sometimes difficult in a first wave of pre-emptive counterassault but far easier if you lead in with rough riders as your first wave since they have increased assault range capabilities which allows you to 'line up the shot' with your successive waves of enemy movement-stalling sacrificial type troops and thus have an easy ability to charge and see everyone into base to base to base contact).

knight said:

As soon as the enemy is going for your lines static defence is useless. If you face an enemy who is as shooty as you it works.

Tau and Tau alone.

Otherwise your fireline will provide the enemy troops a good line they can fight along from CC to CC...

having an enemy consolidate from one squad to another ad infinitum until it runs out of stuff to kill is the thing we venture to >prevent< at all costs.

[acolyte]

the only thing anyone could add to the above is armour. Sentinels are great at tying most units up with the exception of marines. Chimeras are good too as the are relatively cheap, provide cover saves for people behind and block charge lanes/LOS.

god damn TB u know what u on about