Heavy weapon platoons.

[acolyte]

are these things alil... extreme?
i counted up while bored at work, a 1000pts list can get you alot of guns...

Grenadiers.
HWP.
COD.
Drop Troops. (free )

HQ
JO - ML
A/Tank team -3 MLs

TROOPS
5 stromies with 1 flamer
5 stromies with 1 flamer

HVY
HWP with JO/HB
HWT/3 HBs

HWP with JO/HB
HWT/3 HBs

HWP with JO/HB
HWT/3 HBs

1002pts

this gives you 30 heavy bolters 4 MLs 2 flamers and 92 gaurdsmen and 10 stormies... thats... not right. is it?
just wondering why i never seen people use them? they not that expsenive when you convert.

[Deleted]

I think it would only work if your opponent didn't know it was coming and took a on mass meat market army - ie: good against basic armies of orks and nids. I think it would be easily circumvented with fast attack skimmers (jetbikes), drop troops, assault troops and transports (only 4 ML would worry me as its only 2 AT hits a turn).

You would also be dependent on a great cover "shield wall" across your battle line to house all those cumbersome hwt bolters. All these bases in a line reach over 80 inches across - urgghh... Bunched up, these forces would be really vulnerable to indirect and template fire.

Not to completely kaibosh your great idea, but I think in conclusion it should be pointed out that there is a good reason why people don't take this force, as it only works:

a) If you know your enemy has NO unusual assault or vehicle options.
b) If you know he doesn't know you're taking 30 heavy bolters.
c) If you exclude drop troops.
d) If he doesn't have template weapons.
e) If his troops can't fly.
f) If he doesn't have kick ass armour that costs peanuts and is potent enough to deflect gravity.
g) If he's willing to run straight into your guns without a care in the world.

Unfortunately no such army exists in W40k (apart from the "not a care" charge bit, bloody SMurfs), the closest to this list is another imperial guard player, but we have BIG template weapons and things with better range (a real shortcoming of HBs) - so you could effectively kill the following:

A miserley guard player with no elite, heavy or fast attack options and stupid enough to charge.
A miserley ork player with no elite, heavy or fast attack options and stupid enough to charge.
A miserley smurf player with no ... actually these buggers would still survive...
A miserley Chaos smurf player with no interesting (automatically death to enemy)options choices at all - very difficult to find.
Nids?

I think your 1000 pts would be BRILLIANT for running a specialist battle. Your 1000pts defend a bunker, trench and foxhole complex against 2000 pts of nids.

Nice try ... but I think you'd die.

[acolyte]

good point but the idea i was running with that even SMurfs, at 1000pts, with 90 shots at decent str, something has gotta stick. i do see the prob with jump troops terrian hopping. but as for the line of them, that wouldnt be an issue, as id be converting standard guard with HB's on normal bases
back to drawing board then:) ta

[Deleted]

Good point at the 1000pt range. It's a lot of firepower to throw at an average SMurf force of 30-40 men. It will give you a lot of dice to throw (90), but will actually only generate an average of 10 kills a turn against SMurfs. Saving throws really suck away your kill effect. 30 missile launchers using krak missiles give you an average of 12.5 kills a turn, and that S8 gives you really scary anti tank and hero instant kill options ... so I gotta go with subtleblatancy here and max out the nukes.

I find that minimising the layers of rolls is good. With a 50-50 hit rate if you maximise you luck and hit with 75%, you will secure the hits on 83%.

In addition consider the following doctrines:

Sharpshooters - apply to all HWT for a lovely reroll.
Iron Discipline - Cheap at 5 pts per officer, useful for target selection rolls.
Cameoline - perhaps, but too pricey at this level.

COD - what's a COD?

[fatuous]

My experience with Heavy weapon heavy static armies like this is that there often isn't enough decent cover for placement from the start of the battle, and that u will be out manouvered, assualted and then all ur heavys are no use any more.

Some suggestions if you want to field something like this.

Add a platoon of guys to use as shields.

Mix up some defferent heavy weapon options. Autocannons are excellent for stalling a rhino rush, but for the same points cost, I'd take more missile launchers.

Also u have nothing really for taking and holding objectives (5th ed is just round the corner, and only troops canhold objectives now i believe).

Finally, you have free support squad slots for ur HQ platoon, heavy platoons have to be set up 1st giving ur opponent time to place his things out of harms way. HQs usually get placed last, so max out the support squads of ur HQ before adding heavy platoons.

I'd consider removing 1 heavy platoons, adding more support squads to the HQ platoon, and replacing 1 heavy platoon with more infantry, either increasing the size of ur grenadiers and possibly adding chimeras as transport (and heavy weapons, possible sentinels for support inseatd of chims), or adding an inf platoon for more troops.

[Deleted]

Unless you make the HWT light infantry - that would mean that you could place them last as infiltrators and anywhere (within rules) but the prohibitively high cost would kaibosh the benefit (and they would still be awfully vulnerable to the interesting options...

Additionally, Heavy Weapons in infantry platoons have the following advantages:

a) They have eight expendible dudes the enemy has to kill before they can pop your HW. Therefore HW Platoons, command squads, sentinels, hellhounds and even thundercats will attract fire before they get round to being bothered about shooting your squads.
b) They can be placed out in the open and yet benefit from a 4+ (3+ with cameloine) saving throw if the rest of the boys are within 2" and in cover.
[centre]NB: Don't poke your HW's out round the corner of a building etc
where the firer cannot see the rest of your team, as the rules state only your HW team die - big mistake.[centre]
c) They are less attractive to hand2hand drop troops etc because they have 8 mates to pile in/overcome and the hand2hand will go after softer targets.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

I've never seen someone ACTUALLY swap out their tanks for heavy weapon squads in the infantry department.

I DO have to admit that my leman russ does little other than attract it's mandatory one glancing hit per turn to keep it from firing, and that is a source of frusteration for me since my tank is about 200pts (demolisher).

My basilisk fares much better typically due to it's hard to hit nature. it's also considerably cheaper. ... I think that'll be my next conversion to a walker... anyway..

Basilisk=good. Leman Russ='grr stop glancing it once then moving on!!'

Heavy weapon squads seem like they would just be really squishy. I often note that my heavy weapon squads are the first squads targetted and thus the first to die. they are also dense when it comes to the amount of points per model vs. 'thin' units like a 60pt squad of 10 guardsmen with no upgrades.

I recommend some defensive doctrines like cameleoline too to enhance your survivability.

[acolyte]

COD is Close Order Drill, always take if i got a doc free

miss counted points, thought HBs 5pts cheaper then they are. but u cant get 40 Mls in 1500pts, with chimera mounted stormies with plasma/meltas as troops and a small inf platoon (2 squads and officer).