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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 15, 2007 17:44:09 GMT -5
Well during some really strange dreams during accountancy reading...  And now bring in the Commissars and Inquisitors of Ordo Heareticus... I thought of some kind of scout regiment... For that I'd cross Cadian weapons (got sh**loads of spare weapon arms) with Woodelf warriors from WHFB and use them with the Codex Catachan. I'd replace all non-hooded heads with Cadian/Catachan heads or sculpt hoods with GS of course. What do you think: Shall I 'waste 30 Euros for a box of Woodelves and give it a try and watch what happens or drop the idea as fast as I got it?  |
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jan 15, 2007 21:48:57 GMT -5
dreams actually have suprisingly good insights typically I've found. what were the points you liked most in the dream concerning the models?
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 16, 2007 2:40:17 GMT -5
The combination of technology and nature. I think they're very much inspired by Faramir's Rangers from LotR, just as a bit more modern version. The First and Only might have some great scouting skills, but I think they lack a bit the connection to nature. They mainly rely on their camocloaks to blend in the enviorment and not so much on their skills... |
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jan 16, 2007 3:12:43 GMT -5
I think that'd look pretty darn cool. obviously you couldn't use the elf heads so what heads are you planning on using? and what arms? the two big box kits (glade guard and eternal guard) that I saw didn't have any hooded guys in em and I know you mentioned hoods .. might make for a bit of a greenstuffing project, I'm not sure I'd enjoy this but to each our own  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2007 4:47:41 GMT -5
hee hee greenstuff projects rock.. and i would use the elf heads as well.. slap on the IG weapons.. create them some cloaks, and hoodies, strap on the pouches/ammo clips/packs and let them become the scourge of the IG forests.. give those lictors a run for their money  if you are decent with GS this will be a piece of cake.. if not then this will be a cool learning experience.. worst case someone will take this idea and run with it.. heck I am tempted.. cept the wife is already looking at my growing mound of miniture sprues and shaking her head at me getting more.. let alone more scuplting/gs projects.. do it.. if not for yourself but for those of us who are already swamped with our dreamed up ideas of coolness that is preventing us from doing more.. cheers mate and post pics if you do this project |
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 16, 2007 7:08:41 GMT -5
Ok. I just got a box of Woodelf Warriors and checked it out. First result: - 5 Hooded heads per sprue (really nice, saves me some of the Caidian and Catachan Heads for others stuff) - some other really nice stuff to use for other conversions - 2 single torsos without arms (very good!) - 3 torsos with bows and fixed arms (will be some work to convert them) So the overall difficulty will be pretty high and it'll take pretty much GS to do some things. The overall usage of the box for my conversion project is: 7/10 Points and now to work. I'll start with one 'prototype' and make some sort of building protocol with pics and post it |
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 16, 2007 15:13:43 GMT -5
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Post by Colonel Grammissar Azalar on Jan 16, 2007 15:17:40 GMT -5
Wow.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jan 16, 2007 20:54:04 GMT -5
that's frickin awesome! can we get a frontal pic? looks very very sharp - great job |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2007 23:01:10 GMT -5
Nice .. I Love the Feel Of Those ... Look Forward to seeing More
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jan 16, 2007 23:40:05 GMT -5
dreams rock |
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 17, 2007 6:50:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 13:36:55 GMT -5
That looks awesome.
However, Instead of the Catachan, which are only good in Jungles (and Elves rock everywhere), I'd use the doctrines Light Infantry, Special Equipment: Chameleoline Cloaks, Sharpshooters, Rough Riders (through in some Glade Guard), and Heavy Weapon Platoon (Use some ballistas or some elven seige weapon).
This way, you can get Snipers in your squads, infiltrate (like elves), Re-roll 1's (to hit more like an elf) when shooting, get your elven Riders, and some crazy big bows.
I might steal this idea after my Gealandrian Regiment is finished, it's just way too hot.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 18, 2007 16:10:15 GMT -5
I thought of using doctrines in the beginning, too, but decided against them. The Codex: Catachan has too many good options for fighting in Jungle/Forest terrain (ambushes, mines as heavy support, increased WS, seeing and fireing 12" through jungle, etc.) and 'unfortunatly it fits my background better and I love the option, you only get in the Codex: Catachan to arm your officers with Lasguns/Autoguns Oh and btw they aren't any sort of elves. They're humans and are just specialised on scout missions. And I want to show them during one particular campaign and this was in woodland |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2007 12:26:02 GMT -5
But the Codex: Catachan is an illegal list. Catachan are now only legal using Doctrines. Jungle Fighers, Veterans, Hardened Fighters, Special Weapon Squads, Ogryn Squads are the Catachan Doctrines. You get the 4+ cover in trees, 6+ armor, see 12" through trees, move full speed through trees, infiltrate into trees, heavy flamers for infantry as the heavy weapon, no lascannons, up to three veteran squads, +1 A and +1 WS for infantry and sentinels are the special abilities that you get. Using the Codex: Catachan will get you DQed from tournaments, and would possibly create an issue with wasted money, if you purchase models that you can't use because you don't have the doctrines for them. Also, why on earth would you want your officers armed with lasguns? So you can hit better with a relatively ineffective weapon?
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Post by Colonel Grammissar Azalar on Jan 22, 2007 13:05:39 GMT -5
Last time I checked, it was not an "Illegal" list, it was just not used in Tournaments, but that dont stop it being used in your Local GW.
Plus, If it was Illegal, Why would GW Still make the Minitures?
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 22, 2007 18:13:34 GMT -5
Illegal? Huh?!  That'd surprise me quite a bit as I just got a new copy from it from the GW site... Well and as I don't play in tournaments (they're even more freaks then me...) I don't care much if I'd get disqualified on tournaments. I also don't play good enough for that stuff... And I chose the Codex: Catachans as it fits my background and fluff more. If'd put up a effective list I'd kick a lot of things out of my army lists (medics, vox casters, vet sergeants and some other stuff) and for really serious playing I have other armies aka as Night Lords (for everything...) or 11. Regarian Rifles (for open battlefields) or 14. Elyria (for cityfights). Something on hardend fighters: only sentinals get +1 A. Infantry only the +1 WS About the lasguns/autoguns for officers: it's SOOOOOOO nice and fluffy to have them armed like everyone else and if you should ever play against me, fear my lasgun shots as I normally kill things like Terminators with them on regular basis  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2007 20:32:03 GMT -5
if theyre illegal why did GW release a deathworld veterans list on pdf format recently? i think its the same rules.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 24, 2007 7:34:33 GMT -5
Yup. Deathworld Veterans Armylist and Codex: Catachans are the same. I think they just left the modelling hints away in the Armylist.
And I think they're also allowed in tournaments, but they'll most likely lose every game as they're only good in jungle/forrest terrain and if you take their terrain, they'll lose...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2007 11:03:46 GMT -5
You're right, on the Hardened Veterans, I stand corrected.
However, in terms of legality of a codex, I can't believe I actually have to explain this, but I will.
When new rules for an army are released, the old ones are no longer valid. They still make models for Catachans because Catachans are still legal. It is only the Codex: Catachan that isn't. The rules for the Catachan are found just after the doctrines section, where the pictures of the guardsmen are. It lists what doctrines the different regiments of renown use (some use as many as 7 doctrines). The Catachan Rules are listed at the top of page 60. If Games Workshop released a PDF with "Deathworld Veterans", then that's on them. If the content is the same as the Codex: Catachan, then lovely. However, when a new army's codex comes out then the old ones are null and void. Codex: Armageddon is completely illegal with the exception of the Ork Speed Freaks, as the Steel Legion's new rules are in Codex Imperial Guard, the Salamanders' rules are in Codex: Space Marines, and the Black Templar have their own codex now. Similarly, the Eldar cannot use the Codex: Craftworld Eldar book because the new Codex: Eldar supercedes this. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.
Just because you bought the codex new at a GW store doesn't mean it's legal, it just means that they couldn't sell it. I just bought a 3rd Edition Space marine and Chaos codex to add to my collection. That doesn't mean that they're legal, it just means that no one else bought them. Games workshop will sell what they have in the warehouse, regardless of legality. This is why they will still ship the 2nd Printing of the Chaos Codex to stores when they're now on the 4th Printing of the Chaos Codex.
If you want to use the Death World Veteran armylist from PDF format, cool beans, but make sure that you have the Death World Veteran armylist, because GW has been known to sneak changes in without telling anyone, hoping that no one would notice I guess.
Having just looked at the site, I must conclude that Games Workshop is run by the most absolutely useless morons on the face of the planet. But then, I knew this when they printed three versions of the Chaos Codex in under a year. It does say that "If you want to add units of Deathworld Veterans to an exhisting Imperial Guard force, then you should use the Jungle Fighters Doctrine" GW's just trying to squeeze more money out of people. So do whatever you want, I'm past caring.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 24, 2007 13:45:14 GMT -5
Ok. Maybe you're right and it's not allowed on tournaments. But you may use it everywhere else, as long as you opponent agrees on using the rules and that doesn't make it illegal and I can't see any police in front of my apartment till now who want to arrest me for getting illegal stuff and I left really good traces while downloading it from the GW page including my IP...
And just because another rulebook/codex is puplished it doens't mean that you're not allowed to use them anymore. Many ppl are still playing 40k in the previous editions as they like the rules more then the new ones.
I already played with one of the GW employees a cityfight using the old Codex: Cityfight because we both liked the old 'dex more then Cities of Death...
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Post by Colonel Grammissar Azalar on Jan 24, 2007 14:14:48 GMT -5
Have to back up Knight here, he is right
Just because a codex is deemed "Out of Print" Dont stop it being "Out of use" or Id be banged up for life
All my Old Codexs -
Codex: Chaos Dwarves
Codex: Chaos
Codex: Space Wolves
Codex: Imperial Guard [1999 Print]
Codex: Imperial Guard [1989 print (something like that)]
Codex: Wood Elves
Codex: Skaven
So if an Old Codex was illegal, I need Life Please.
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Post by fatuous on Jan 25, 2007 4:38:38 GMT -5
The downloadable Codex Catachans mentions the new codex and specifically mentions doctrines, and that the catahcan codex is for fielding a full army of jungle fighters, so would have thought it is still legal. I don't play tournaments so really can't comment on that.
But as with most additional rules, you would have to have your opponents consent to play, especially if they are going to have to fight in a complete jungle scenario.
That's how I read it any way. I unedrstand that some rules superceed other rules, but it actually mentions doctrines so I'd have thought it's still fine to use.
Just my 2cents.
Edit: Nice conversions btw, cool idea, looking forward to seeing more of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2007 11:30:18 GMT -5
By "legality" I do mean Tournaments. I feel that anything that needs your opponent's permission to use is a WOMBAT (Waste Of Money, Brains, And Time). Of course, where I play, people are coming in from the Iron Fist League and we have a ton of GT and GD players, so everyone plays something that would work in a tournament because a lot of us would rather have the money to play in a tournament than waste it on something that someone could say "no" to.
I also think that building an entire army to fight in only one type of scenario is wasteful as well. Especially when this one scenario so horendously favors your army above all others. This is why I didn't make an Emperor's Children army completely out of daemons in the off-chance that I might play a Daemon World scenario. No one I know would ever consent to it. It's as likely as saying, "Hey, wanna play a 2,000 point game where you only get 1,250 points?" Maybe the store retard would say yes, but no one else would.
But again, the conversions are awesome. I can't wait to see them painted. Have you converted any of the torsos with the arms on them yet? I'm really eager to see those.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 25, 2007 16:20:29 GMT -5
Well then I am afraid to say that neither you nor your friends understood the sense of the hobby. It's not about doing the only effective, it's about fun and what you like to do. If the players where you play don't understand that and would say no, they are just plain stupid and ignorant. And I don't even feel sorry for them, cause they DON'T understand the spirit of the hobby as you seem not to understand it.
I do that because I like to do crazy stuff and the other players where I play understand that, because they are the same and they wouldn't deny me to use such a force as I wouldn't deny them to use their fun army. We play for fun and because we like to play 40k, not to earn money with our minis or our skill.
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