Post by grix on Nov 27, 2010 11:38:47 GMT -5
2000 points
My list
CCS- 4xPG, OotF, Chimera, HHF
CCS- 4xMG
PSB- 4x Sanctioned Psykers, 1x Overseer
Vet Squad- 3xMG, Demolitions
Vet Squad- 3xPG, Chimera, HHF
Vet Squad- 3xMG, Chimera, HHF
Infantry Platoon
PCS- bare
2x INF Squads- Commissar, 2x Sgt's with PW and Commissar with PW
HWS- 3xML
Vendetta
Vendetta
Hell Hound- MM
Punisher
Punisher
Hydra Flak tank x 2
His list
Marshal (deployed with one of the tactical squads)
EC (deployed with Termies)
5x Termies (3LC, 2 TH/SH) in LRC
3x Tactical squads, 2 w/MG & PF, 1 w/MG & PW. All in a Rhino (Black Templar equivalent of tac squads)
3x Land Speeders with MM and HF
3x Pred (LC and AC)
Mission- Capture and Control (2nd mission in BRB)
Deployment- Spear Head
Opponent won roll for first turn and opted to deploy and go first.
Due to terrain he deployed in sort of an L formation. LRC up front, one land speeder behind it. One Rhino behind that. That was his left deployment (my view). In the center all three Predators. On my right was two Rhinos (one with the marshal behind the other) and two speeders pretty close.
My deployment was from my left to right. Punisher with my Hell hound directly behind it. Vendetta with my CCS behind them. In the middle saw me with Melta Vet Chimera, CCS Chimera, and Plasma Vet Squad Chimera. All behind huge terrain in the center giving them cover. Behind them my blob squad, behind them in a building (first floor) was my PCS, second floor and roof had my PSB and my ML HWT's. On the right I had my second punisher providing cover to my two Hydra's, and my Vendetta with my other melta vet squad in the vecinity.
Pre-turn 1: Scout move, I move both Vendettas up. CCS aggressively at the LRC, other slightly less aggressive up the right flank.
Roll to seize the initiative is FAILED!
BT Turn 1:
Movement- Left Land speeder moves up 12" with a shot at my CCS Vendetta. LRC moves up full 12", Rhino on left moves up 12 behind LRC. On the right non Marshal Rhino moves up 12" and pops smoke, second Rhino behind him. Land speeders move 12" with targets set on Vendetta's. One of the Land speeders could see both.
Shooting- After all was said and done the onlything he managed to do was bring down both Vendetta's! They did go down, but soaked up every single shot he had. CCS gets out unscathed and passes pin check. Vet squad gets trashed! 8 wounds, all 8 failed. Pin check and LD check passed. That crash saw only 2 Vets with Melta's live.
Guard Turn 1:
Movement- CCS from Vet moves up 6" and is within 6" of LRC. Left Punisher moves to the right a bit. Hell Hound moves up 8ish ". Mech Vet Chimera moves up 12" and turns sideways providing cover, Vets get out (should have done this better, but I wanted my meltas in the mix, and left a congo line with pretty much all of them. Plasma Vets squads move up 6" and add to the Chimera wall. Punisher on right moves up 6".
Shooting- 1st Order: Bring it down on LRC, 4 hits, 4 pens, 2 6's. Explodes 1" killes one Termie!, 2nd Order: Fire on my target to the Melta Vet squad on the Rhino, goes off. 3 Meltas take off storm bolter. 3rd Order: Fire on my target to the HWT, 3 hits, 2 pens, both go through due to re-roll on cover. Pen rolls are 4 and a 6. Explodes, killing 1 Neophyte and 2 regular Templars, they pass their pin check. Hell hound had no target for its MM, flamed the Termies, no failed wounds. Left punisher caused 7 wounds on the termies, no failed wounds. 2x ML's, Plasma Vet Squad (firing from inside) and the punisher force enough failed armor and cover saves to kill 4 more crusaders, which requires a leadership test. PSB lowers leadership. Crusader squad falls back 7"and is 4 strong. Hydra's fail to kill Land speeder. The 2 Melta Vets from the Valk kill the right most land speeder.
BT Turn 2:
Movement- Left Rhino moves up 12", Termi squad gets out and positions to kill my CCS, Left Speeder moves to get side shot on Hell hound or Punisher. 4man strong crusader squad regroups. Marshal Rhino moves up 12, but due to a lot of terrain elects to go long way instead of risking immobalization. Middle land speeder moves on my Melta vets which formed a congo line.
Shooting- Left Land speeder has side shots on my Hell hound and punisher. He elected for the Punisher, personally I would have shot at the HH since it has a MM and can kill the Rhino carrying his crusader squad on that flank, but he felt the Punisher was more of a threat to his Termies. Punisher dies... Land speeder in the middle kills all but 2 Melta Vets, they pass leadership. One predator kills chimera from melta vets. Another kills the other chimera with plasma vets. Plasma Vets get out, 1 dies to explosion, they pass pin check. Thats all the shooting.
Assault- His termies annihilate my CCS.
Guard Turn 2:
Movement- with my left flank threatened, I move my HH over difficult terrain to get a shot on the Rhino and if he lives force him to go farther around or though difficult terrain. CCS Chimera moves left 12", they get out with a shot on the land speeder. Melta Vet squad moves to get cover from the predators while getting LoS on the Land speeder that just smoked their buddies. Plasma Vets move out of cover and into cover, getting LoS on Land speeder if Melta Vets fail to kill. The other 2man strong Melta Vet Squad moves up to get shots on Rhino. Right side punisher moves into a forrest to be in range of the regrouped crusader squad or the embarked crusader squad if I can force them to get out.
Shooting- 1st Order: Bring it down on CCS sees the land speeder on the left immobilized and cant shoot. 2nd Order: FRFSRF on the Termies, 34 shots, sees 1 termie die. HH hits, pens the Rhino and rolls a 1! Middle 2man Melta Vet Squad kills the middle land speeder. Plasma Vets shoot at 4m crusader squad 2 die. Right 2man Melta Vet squad shoots at same target, cover saves made. HWT shoots Rhino, immobalizing it. PSB fails ld test. Hydra's blow up right Rhino, Punisher makes the marshals crusader squad take 6 wounds, 1 neo dies.
BT Turn 3:
Movement- Left Rhino moves over difficult terrain, passes test. 2man strong crusader squad moves up towards far right 2man Vet Squad. Termies move up in the center within charging distance of left 2man Vet Squad. Marshal crusader squad moves out of terrain.
Shooting- Predators kill the CCS's chimera, make it explode, take 2 PG and the OotF with it. LD test is failed, my CCS fails leadership and falls back off the board. 2m Crusader squad takes a pop shot at my punisher with a MG, whiffs. Marshall's crusader squad shoots up my 2m Vet Squad.
Assault- EC and 3 termies assault my 2man vet squad, kill it consolidate closer.
Guard Turn 3:
Movement- HH goes to get out of difficult terrain, and gets immobilized. Blob Squad moves up 3", PCS moves down. Plasma Vets don't move, they rolled a 1 for difficult terrain. Punisher gets immobilized.
Shooting- 1st and only Order: FRFSRF sees the two termies with the EC die to 54 shots. Inferno Cannon shoots at the Land speeder that was immobilized and the Rhino, getting rear armor on both. Again no dmg. Plasma Vets kill one of the 2man strong crusader squad.
BT Turn 4:
Movement- EC moves closer to Blob Squad. Left Tactical Squad in Rhino unloads and moves towards Blob Squad. Top Marshal Crusader squad moves down towards Plasma Vets. No other movement.
Shooting- Crusader Squad shoots Bolt Pistols killing 3 Blob Members. Marshall's Crusader squad takes shots at Plasma Vets killing 2. No other real shooting.
Assault- Crusader squad and EC kill all but two in the Blob squad. I take two wounds on Commissar and he goes down. 2 sgt's and one other guardsman do no wounds in return. They break, and are swept. Plasma Vets break.
Guard Turn 4:
Movement- PCS moves up a bit closer to the EC and Crusader Squad.
Shooting- Punisher turns its turret and unloads on the crusader squad closest to the EC. Taking 3 down. PCS shoots at same target killing another 2. ML takes a shot at them killing 1. PSB lower their LD, force them to fall back.
BT Turn 5:
Movement- Crusader squad regroups. Marshalls squad moves down 6 towards my pcs.
Shooting- Marshalls crusader squad kill two in my PCS, they pass moral, I remove the closest to them to prevent assault.
Assault- EC assaults and kills the PCS.
Guard Turn 5:
Movement- PSB moves down.
Shooting- PSB drops pie plate on Marshall's Crusader Squad, ap is 5 =/. ML put a wound on the EC.
Game ends with a roll of a 2. Guard Victory. 1 objective held to 0.
Had my opponents rolling not been so destructive on my vehicles I would have been able to easily repel his assault. However all my transports but one Chimera exploded. And they all killed troopers but the first Vendetta with the CCS.
The game itself was close at the end, but that was not due to the list, I would say one decent mistake on my part. It was really bad rolling which prevented me from getting a very solid win. That and my opponent rushing me with everything in hope of taking my objective while leaving his without any troops to control.
I will go line by line and list my experience with the units in the list.
CCS- 4x PG- Solid, they held back a bit, I waited for targets to present themselves instead of me looking to find them. Killed 3x Termies by shooting, while giving out vital orders to the ML HWT and the Blob squad.
CCS- 4x MG- Great, as always did not disapoint. 90pt unit killed 300ish points, LRC and one termie. Prior to being killed in assault.
PSB- Great, only failed one LD test, however made units fall back when needed.
Vet Squad- 3xMG, Demo. Decent, 8 died to explosion of Vendetta, remaining two melta's, killed a Land Speeder. Would have done better had I not lost 80% to vendetta explosion. I really am considering not giving them demolitions. I have not gotten an alpha strike off in so long that I feel the 30 points could be used elsewhere.
Vet Squad- 3xPG- Solid, 2 died to chimera explosion, assisted in the destruction of a tactical squad.
PCS- Solid, not really giving this squad special weapons hinders their performance, however they did provide a key FRFSRF after my CCS was forced off the field due to a failed leadership test.
INF PW Blob Squad- Decent, they killed 2 Termies I believe, and 3 tactical marines when they got assaulted. However what really hurt this squad was not having more bodies. They really dont have the number of meat shields to take an assault. They were assaulted by a 9m tac squad, and the EC (only one that made it to my lines from the LRC), after the initial tally and prior to me being able to strike back I had 1 regular guardsman, 2 sgt's and the commissar. I think I might drop the PW's from this squad. As they will not really be able to bog any opponent down long enough for them to do their dmg. Doing so will net me 30 points which I can use for something else.
HWS- Great, It has been ages since I ran some HWS's, 4th edition if I am not mistaken. And they did not dissapoint. Knocking down a pair of Rhinos and causing wounds on Termies. Orders help a lot.
Vendetta's- Decent? as always they are heavy fire magnets. They both got blown up turn 1 before I was able to do anything (he went first). But after everything was shot he did not have anything else to shoot. And the passengers were in decent position.
Hell Hound- Decent, decent fire magnet after turn 1, but even though I managed to hit everytime with the MM, and penetrating everytime. When you roll 1 for the dmg roll, there is only so much the vehicle can do. lol. Had one of those two pens been at a minimum and immobilized, his tactical squad would have never gotten near my lines.
Punishers- Solid, great fire magnets. Even if the AP is - the opponent cannot let them go un-attended. 23 shots per turn is quite a bit. I believe I am going to squadron them. It will take away one more possible KP, and basically anything I want to shoot 23 shots at, will be best if I shoot 56 shots instead. I was playing MEQ, and that does differ their effectiveness. But they are still a force to be reckoned with.
Hydras- Decent, in reality there was not many viable targets. Due to by the end of my turn two the only viable vehicle left was a Rhino on the other side of the board.
Overall- B+ This list works wonderfully. Everything backs itself up quite nicely and is very effective. I will be playtesting this again tomorrow, Ill let you know how it goes.
Contemplated changes:
- Demolitions to Vet Squad +30 points
- PW in Blob Squad +30 points
+ Chimera to the Vet Squad
+ Melta Bomb on second CCS
Grix out.
My list
CCS- 4xPG, OotF, Chimera, HHF
CCS- 4xMG
PSB- 4x Sanctioned Psykers, 1x Overseer
Vet Squad- 3xMG, Demolitions
Vet Squad- 3xPG, Chimera, HHF
Vet Squad- 3xMG, Chimera, HHF
Infantry Platoon
PCS- bare
2x INF Squads- Commissar, 2x Sgt's with PW and Commissar with PW
HWS- 3xML
Vendetta
Vendetta
Hell Hound- MM
Punisher
Punisher
Hydra Flak tank x 2
His list
Marshal (deployed with one of the tactical squads)
EC (deployed with Termies)
5x Termies (3LC, 2 TH/SH) in LRC
3x Tactical squads, 2 w/MG & PF, 1 w/MG & PW. All in a Rhino (Black Templar equivalent of tac squads)
3x Land Speeders with MM and HF
3x Pred (LC and AC)
Mission- Capture and Control (2nd mission in BRB)
Deployment- Spear Head
Opponent won roll for first turn and opted to deploy and go first.
Due to terrain he deployed in sort of an L formation. LRC up front, one land speeder behind it. One Rhino behind that. That was his left deployment (my view). In the center all three Predators. On my right was two Rhinos (one with the marshal behind the other) and two speeders pretty close.
My deployment was from my left to right. Punisher with my Hell hound directly behind it. Vendetta with my CCS behind them. In the middle saw me with Melta Vet Chimera, CCS Chimera, and Plasma Vet Squad Chimera. All behind huge terrain in the center giving them cover. Behind them my blob squad, behind them in a building (first floor) was my PCS, second floor and roof had my PSB and my ML HWT's. On the right I had my second punisher providing cover to my two Hydra's, and my Vendetta with my other melta vet squad in the vecinity.
Pre-turn 1: Scout move, I move both Vendettas up. CCS aggressively at the LRC, other slightly less aggressive up the right flank.
Roll to seize the initiative is FAILED!
BT Turn 1:
Movement- Left Land speeder moves up 12" with a shot at my CCS Vendetta. LRC moves up full 12", Rhino on left moves up 12 behind LRC. On the right non Marshal Rhino moves up 12" and pops smoke, second Rhino behind him. Land speeders move 12" with targets set on Vendetta's. One of the Land speeders could see both.
Shooting- After all was said and done the onlything he managed to do was bring down both Vendetta's! They did go down, but soaked up every single shot he had. CCS gets out unscathed and passes pin check. Vet squad gets trashed! 8 wounds, all 8 failed. Pin check and LD check passed. That crash saw only 2 Vets with Melta's live.
Guard Turn 1:
Movement- CCS from Vet moves up 6" and is within 6" of LRC. Left Punisher moves to the right a bit. Hell Hound moves up 8ish ". Mech Vet Chimera moves up 12" and turns sideways providing cover, Vets get out (should have done this better, but I wanted my meltas in the mix, and left a congo line with pretty much all of them. Plasma Vets squads move up 6" and add to the Chimera wall. Punisher on right moves up 6".
Shooting- 1st Order: Bring it down on LRC, 4 hits, 4 pens, 2 6's. Explodes 1" killes one Termie!, 2nd Order: Fire on my target to the Melta Vet squad on the Rhino, goes off. 3 Meltas take off storm bolter. 3rd Order: Fire on my target to the HWT, 3 hits, 2 pens, both go through due to re-roll on cover. Pen rolls are 4 and a 6. Explodes, killing 1 Neophyte and 2 regular Templars, they pass their pin check. Hell hound had no target for its MM, flamed the Termies, no failed wounds. Left punisher caused 7 wounds on the termies, no failed wounds. 2x ML's, Plasma Vet Squad (firing from inside) and the punisher force enough failed armor and cover saves to kill 4 more crusaders, which requires a leadership test. PSB lowers leadership. Crusader squad falls back 7"and is 4 strong. Hydra's fail to kill Land speeder. The 2 Melta Vets from the Valk kill the right most land speeder.
BT Turn 2:
Movement- Left Rhino moves up 12", Termi squad gets out and positions to kill my CCS, Left Speeder moves to get side shot on Hell hound or Punisher. 4man strong crusader squad regroups. Marshal Rhino moves up 12, but due to a lot of terrain elects to go long way instead of risking immobalization. Middle land speeder moves on my Melta vets which formed a congo line.
Shooting- Left Land speeder has side shots on my Hell hound and punisher. He elected for the Punisher, personally I would have shot at the HH since it has a MM and can kill the Rhino carrying his crusader squad on that flank, but he felt the Punisher was more of a threat to his Termies. Punisher dies... Land speeder in the middle kills all but 2 Melta Vets, they pass leadership. One predator kills chimera from melta vets. Another kills the other chimera with plasma vets. Plasma Vets get out, 1 dies to explosion, they pass pin check. Thats all the shooting.
Assault- His termies annihilate my CCS.
Guard Turn 2:
Movement- with my left flank threatened, I move my HH over difficult terrain to get a shot on the Rhino and if he lives force him to go farther around or though difficult terrain. CCS Chimera moves left 12", they get out with a shot on the land speeder. Melta Vet squad moves to get cover from the predators while getting LoS on the Land speeder that just smoked their buddies. Plasma Vets move out of cover and into cover, getting LoS on Land speeder if Melta Vets fail to kill. The other 2man strong Melta Vet Squad moves up to get shots on Rhino. Right side punisher moves into a forrest to be in range of the regrouped crusader squad or the embarked crusader squad if I can force them to get out.
Shooting- 1st Order: Bring it down on CCS sees the land speeder on the left immobilized and cant shoot. 2nd Order: FRFSRF on the Termies, 34 shots, sees 1 termie die. HH hits, pens the Rhino and rolls a 1! Middle 2man Melta Vet Squad kills the middle land speeder. Plasma Vets shoot at 4m crusader squad 2 die. Right 2man Melta Vet squad shoots at same target, cover saves made. HWT shoots Rhino, immobalizing it. PSB fails ld test. Hydra's blow up right Rhino, Punisher makes the marshals crusader squad take 6 wounds, 1 neo dies.
BT Turn 3:
Movement- Left Rhino moves over difficult terrain, passes test. 2man strong crusader squad moves up towards far right 2man Vet Squad. Termies move up in the center within charging distance of left 2man Vet Squad. Marshal crusader squad moves out of terrain.
Shooting- Predators kill the CCS's chimera, make it explode, take 2 PG and the OotF with it. LD test is failed, my CCS fails leadership and falls back off the board. 2m Crusader squad takes a pop shot at my punisher with a MG, whiffs. Marshall's crusader squad shoots up my 2m Vet Squad.
Assault- EC and 3 termies assault my 2man vet squad, kill it consolidate closer.
Guard Turn 3:
Movement- HH goes to get out of difficult terrain, and gets immobilized. Blob Squad moves up 3", PCS moves down. Plasma Vets don't move, they rolled a 1 for difficult terrain. Punisher gets immobilized.
Shooting- 1st and only Order: FRFSRF sees the two termies with the EC die to 54 shots. Inferno Cannon shoots at the Land speeder that was immobilized and the Rhino, getting rear armor on both. Again no dmg. Plasma Vets kill one of the 2man strong crusader squad.
BT Turn 4:
Movement- EC moves closer to Blob Squad. Left Tactical Squad in Rhino unloads and moves towards Blob Squad. Top Marshal Crusader squad moves down towards Plasma Vets. No other movement.
Shooting- Crusader Squad shoots Bolt Pistols killing 3 Blob Members. Marshall's Crusader squad takes shots at Plasma Vets killing 2. No other real shooting.
Assault- Crusader squad and EC kill all but two in the Blob squad. I take two wounds on Commissar and he goes down. 2 sgt's and one other guardsman do no wounds in return. They break, and are swept. Plasma Vets break.
Guard Turn 4:
Movement- PCS moves up a bit closer to the EC and Crusader Squad.
Shooting- Punisher turns its turret and unloads on the crusader squad closest to the EC. Taking 3 down. PCS shoots at same target killing another 2. ML takes a shot at them killing 1. PSB lower their LD, force them to fall back.
BT Turn 5:
Movement- Crusader squad regroups. Marshalls squad moves down 6 towards my pcs.
Shooting- Marshalls crusader squad kill two in my PCS, they pass moral, I remove the closest to them to prevent assault.
Assault- EC assaults and kills the PCS.
Guard Turn 5:
Movement- PSB moves down.
Shooting- PSB drops pie plate on Marshall's Crusader Squad, ap is 5 =/. ML put a wound on the EC.
Game ends with a roll of a 2. Guard Victory. 1 objective held to 0.
Had my opponents rolling not been so destructive on my vehicles I would have been able to easily repel his assault. However all my transports but one Chimera exploded. And they all killed troopers but the first Vendetta with the CCS.
The game itself was close at the end, but that was not due to the list, I would say one decent mistake on my part. It was really bad rolling which prevented me from getting a very solid win. That and my opponent rushing me with everything in hope of taking my objective while leaving his without any troops to control.
I will go line by line and list my experience with the units in the list.
CCS- 4x PG- Solid, they held back a bit, I waited for targets to present themselves instead of me looking to find them. Killed 3x Termies by shooting, while giving out vital orders to the ML HWT and the Blob squad.
CCS- 4x MG- Great, as always did not disapoint. 90pt unit killed 300ish points, LRC and one termie. Prior to being killed in assault.
PSB- Great, only failed one LD test, however made units fall back when needed.
Vet Squad- 3xMG, Demo. Decent, 8 died to explosion of Vendetta, remaining two melta's, killed a Land Speeder. Would have done better had I not lost 80% to vendetta explosion. I really am considering not giving them demolitions. I have not gotten an alpha strike off in so long that I feel the 30 points could be used elsewhere.
Vet Squad- 3xPG- Solid, 2 died to chimera explosion, assisted in the destruction of a tactical squad.
PCS- Solid, not really giving this squad special weapons hinders their performance, however they did provide a key FRFSRF after my CCS was forced off the field due to a failed leadership test.
INF PW Blob Squad- Decent, they killed 2 Termies I believe, and 3 tactical marines when they got assaulted. However what really hurt this squad was not having more bodies. They really dont have the number of meat shields to take an assault. They were assaulted by a 9m tac squad, and the EC (only one that made it to my lines from the LRC), after the initial tally and prior to me being able to strike back I had 1 regular guardsman, 2 sgt's and the commissar. I think I might drop the PW's from this squad. As they will not really be able to bog any opponent down long enough for them to do their dmg. Doing so will net me 30 points which I can use for something else.
HWS- Great, It has been ages since I ran some HWS's, 4th edition if I am not mistaken. And they did not dissapoint. Knocking down a pair of Rhinos and causing wounds on Termies. Orders help a lot.
Vendetta's- Decent? as always they are heavy fire magnets. They both got blown up turn 1 before I was able to do anything (he went first). But after everything was shot he did not have anything else to shoot. And the passengers were in decent position.
Hell Hound- Decent, decent fire magnet after turn 1, but even though I managed to hit everytime with the MM, and penetrating everytime. When you roll 1 for the dmg roll, there is only so much the vehicle can do. lol. Had one of those two pens been at a minimum and immobilized, his tactical squad would have never gotten near my lines.
Punishers- Solid, great fire magnets. Even if the AP is - the opponent cannot let them go un-attended. 23 shots per turn is quite a bit. I believe I am going to squadron them. It will take away one more possible KP, and basically anything I want to shoot 23 shots at, will be best if I shoot 56 shots instead. I was playing MEQ, and that does differ their effectiveness. But they are still a force to be reckoned with.
Hydras- Decent, in reality there was not many viable targets. Due to by the end of my turn two the only viable vehicle left was a Rhino on the other side of the board.
Overall- B+ This list works wonderfully. Everything backs itself up quite nicely and is very effective. I will be playtesting this again tomorrow, Ill let you know how it goes.
Contemplated changes:
- Demolitions to Vet Squad +30 points
- PW in Blob Squad +30 points
+ Chimera to the Vet Squad
+ Melta Bomb on second CCS
Grix out.