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Post by Leopard on Nov 29, 2010 8:55:57 GMT -5
Will hopefully be taking the Biel-Tan Bods for an outing this week, circa 750 points, the exact list is to be finalised but broadly will be the following:
2x Farseer
3x Warlocks
10x Dire Avengers, inc Exarch with twin catapults
5-6x Fire Dragons, inc exarch with flamer or fusion gun
5x Path finders.
table expected to be 4'x4', the plan is to get the pathfinders into a ruin for the 2+ cover save and leave them there sniping with their pretty decent sniper long rifles, the rest advances as more or less one formation using a combination of Doom and other powers to pick on a selected target unit.
Not sure what this lot will end up facing, not too bothered about "elite" lists or anyone who goes armour heavy, though massed infantry would be scary (the only such army locally is mine so shouldn't be an issue).
Thoughts? Advice?
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Post by Walrus on Nov 29, 2010 9:07:17 GMT -5
Is it really essential to have 2 farseers?
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Post by Leopard on Nov 29, 2010 9:16:41 GMT -5
Essential? not at all, this is just that which is currently painted, for 750 I'd prefer to swap one out for another infantry squad but currently the 2nd Dire Avenger squad is unopened in its box and won't be ready in time.
This is basically part of what will be a larger mechanised force, but without the bits I don't yet have, only giving them an outing for a bit of variation
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Post by Walrus on Nov 29, 2010 9:18:58 GMT -5
ahh fair enough then. In that case i would gear up 1 farseer to offensive based goodness, and the other as defensive/supportive roles. Hope that helps  |
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Post by magg on Nov 29, 2010 15:09:01 GMT -5
I would take the Firepike, because the Flamer is not worth its points in a unit of FireDragons. FireDragons should hunt down tanks and/or heavy infantry. The Flamer is not good at either of this tasks. In my opinion the Exarch of the FireDragons is redundant, because he does not push the unit like other Exarchs do (not even the leadership-value). Although it is against every fluff-cell in my body (the warriors of a warshrine should not march into war without their spiritual leader), I mostly leave the Exarch at home. It could be that you have taken the Exarch because of the points, then ignore the last few sentences. If you want a heavy flamer, then take Destructor. To be honest, I never used the “council of the Farseer”. My Farseers always walk alone (normally behind a unit they should support), so I am not sure what advice I can give you here. I have some experience with Warlocks, though. My Guardians never walk without one, because Conceal is worth every point (although it will not be good in a unit of models that already have a invulnerable save  ). I can see the close-combat potential of this unit (never underestimate witchblades … it is funny to hunt tanks with it), so if you plan to use them this way, I would suggest taking Destructor to soften the target and Enhance to boost your own abilities. I am not sure of the third psychic power, though … maybe Destructor, too? The best combination for a Farseer is: Doom, Guide and Spirit Stones. I know that this combination has a beard as long as the Nile, but it works. Especially, with DireAvengers with Blade Storm or (at the right moment) with FireDrangons (they are few, so every round should hit  ) With Mind War and Eldrich Storm your Farseer may deal some damage himself, but with the combination mentioned above, he will enhance the potential of the army considerably. Blade Storm of the DireAvenger Exarch is a little double-edged (but it is< worth taking ), because it leaves the unit nearly defenceless in your next turn. Support the unit with Doom and Guide and Blade Storm rocks! The problem is to pick the right time to use it (I am the master of choosing the wrong time … and I always realize it a millisecond after I declared it). Always keep in mind: If you are too cautious you might get charged and never use it, so in case of doubt: Use it. (At odd times I managed to use it twice a game  ) Try to avoid close combat. I know that the aspect warriors have all the same stats, but if their aspect is not a close-combat orientated aspect you should only charge if you are sure you will win (I saw DireAvengers get bashed by tau battle suits in close combat … ouch). Hope this helps Cheers! -Magg |
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Post by Leopard on Nov 30, 2010 3:05:49 GMT -5
It does indeed help, the fire dragons have the option of the flamer or a basic fusion gun (didn't assemble the firepike), the concept being to keep them cheap and to have some anti infantry options, may leave him at home though depending on what else happens "everything" is circa 800 points so will be dropping a few bits.
Not overly bothered about the farseer growing a beard, this is a small force and needs all the help it can get.
Dire Avengers are built with Bladestorm in mind, hoping that the reload turn will either be the one the enemy is dead and thus we can run to a new position, or the enemy is not dead in which case we will be running to a new position...
Tend to avoid close combat anyway :-)
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Post by Leopard on Dec 5, 2010 12:57:19 GMT -5
Ok these guys took to the field for the first time today, against a smallish Space Wolf force, needless to say they lost, however they did a lot better than I thought they would.
1, Bladestorm is nasty, even from just 8 Dire Avengers
2, Paying for stuff like "Defend" then forgetting you have it sucks
3, Ditto when a unit is "Doomed" forgetting to re-roll wounds sucks somewhat
4, Warlocks have an extra hand weapon, thus extra close combat attack, it would have been useful to remember this.
5, Instant death sucks on a T3 model such as a farseer...
6, Even with Fortune a farseer will fail saves, especially when hit with a weapon that causes instant death.
On the plus side "Fortune" is pretty nice, causing suitable amounts of wolf irritation.
The Fire Dragons didn't last long, not long enough to actually open fire at least, on foot I expected as much though, the Pathfinders were minced as well, flamers hurt, but without support they distracted a full squad of marines for a while.
Main lessons:
1, could do with a squad of Guardians to deploy near the Pathfinders to give them a bit of a boost, at least while stuck on foot
2, three warlocks is ok, but I think five or six is probably needed
3, as expected fire dragons get a ride or stay at home
4, a few reference cards couldn't hurt.
Fun game though, utterly different from my IG infantry.. scary being out numbered by marines
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Post by StillANoob on Dec 5, 2010 13:16:08 GMT -5
Too bad on the loss. As long as you had fun that's what counts. You learned from your battle as well which is just as important, so hopefully next time you shall bring victory to your Craftworld!
Cheers,
SaN
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Post by Leopard on Dec 5, 2010 15:51:45 GMT -5
Oh I knew I'd loose the first game or two, not bothered about that, was a learning experience only anyway.
But one of these days I'll beat them damn wolves....
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Post by StillANoob on Dec 6, 2010 6:33:45 GMT -5
There is a guy who works at my local GW. I've never seen him lose a game or even heard of it and I've been going there for like 3 years? He's drawn a few times and there have been some REALLY close calls, but when he plays Wolves he DOMINATES. I don't know how he does it. It was his first army and he plays them amazingly well. I had a game against him at 2000 points with my side being my 1000 points of IG and my mates Eldar against 2000 points of Space Wolves. Tabled us in 3 Turns. It was insane.
SaN
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Post by sothas on Apr 8, 2011 15:46:47 GMT -5
Dire avengers are anit-horde. bladestorm and defend, kite ork mob for 2 rounds, then assault them. Orks with 1 attack makes them cry... and die.
Guardians, surprisingly, are super effective at killing MEQ. So many shots makes MEQ cry. Add in starcannon or shuriken cannon and they don't walk away.
Conceal for guardians is a must.
Fortune and guide your avengers, they don't die. I've had whole squads last the entire battle because of this (I'm pro at those 4+ saves, yes fail my 3+)
dragons minus their falcon = bad. very very bad. and very very dead, as you've seen. Replace with dark reapers and laugh at everyone as they get smashed into the ground by their awesome power. Also guardians are a good replacement for a game this small. More feet is a god send for a small game like this.
As you discovered, pathfinders without support pop with ease. It's tempting to put them into a strategicly apealing spot, but it's not actually a good idea. Keep them far far away for everything, but close enough to snipe faces off. This takes some serious getting used to. Practice placement and you'll get the hang of it.
2 Farseers is a bit excessive, but can also be fun. If you have the ability to do it, i HIGHLY recomend your council on bikes with at least fortune. This allows you a super speed CC killy squad of destruction that will irritate your foe because they just can't die. Don't forget enchance.
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