|
Post by nchomsky3d on Jan 27, 2011 11:19:07 GMT -5
I'm trying to get an idea of what people think of the Manticore. I just bought and built one, and it did pretty well in a game with LOS-blocking terrain against someone with no deepstrikers/outflankers, but I don't know how it would work in a tournament setting. S10 sounds great (1-3 of them sound even better) but AP4 is an issue.
I'm making a mech-vet list (original, I know). Its a plasma CCS, 5 melta vets, flamer vets with demo charge, a valkyrie, a vendetta, a demolisher, a Leman Russ with plasma sponsons, and 150 pts left over. I could remove the plasma pistol from the CCS and add the Manticore, or just add a vanilla Leman Russ.
TL;DR: Is the Manticore worth it, or is the Leman Russ a better choice?
|
|
|
Post by krasimirova on Jan 27, 2011 12:00:07 GMT -5
Well it depends on a lot of things.. If you face MEQ's then the leman russ will be very handy.. otherwise the manticore is a good all arounder, actually it might be one of the best all around tanks we have..
|
|
|
Post by Julian Sharps on Jan 27, 2011 12:16:57 GMT -5
I agree with Krasimirova; the Manticore is an amazing all-arounder. If I weren't horribly strapped for Troops choices (being an all-carapace vet air cavalry list), I'd take more spotter Chimeras for the Marauder Missile Carriers back over the horizon...
|
|
|
Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jan 27, 2011 12:47:26 GMT -5
I currently have 3 of the little buggers, and love them each dearly. Being able to d3 Ordnance Templates a turn on Green Tide and other hordes brings a tear of joy to my eye...especially when one of those templates scatters off and trashes almost any vehicle it comes across.
|
|
|
Post by nchomsky3d on Jan 27, 2011 13:20:58 GMT -5
My only worry is that its only AV12, as opposed to the AV14 of either the vanilla Leman Russ or Leman Russ Executioner I would take in its place. I'm worried about getting placed on a low-terrain tabletop and getting taken out by a krak-missile before I even get to fire. Has that not really been a problem for people?
|
|
|
Post by NobleSeven on Jan 27, 2011 13:47:18 GMT -5
The Manticore is simply amazing for its pt cost and what it does. If you use a couple of them in conjunction with other plate dropping units you create a rainstorm of death that can (and will) clear a bulk of your enemy from the table in the first turn. Generally this is most effective if you can go first and if you deploy in a way that causes your opponent to bunch and funnel in the center.
The Manticore in force is pure Imperial Win.
|
|
|
Post by portcullis on Jan 27, 2011 18:20:33 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me how you shoot three templates?
Do you select a location and then see if it scatters. Then from the original point fire again exactly as before?
I saw some guy get to fire three shots and he used it like a multiple barrage?! Shureley Shome Mishtake?
|
|
|
Post by Julian Sharps on Jan 28, 2011 16:27:19 GMT -5
I've always played it as a multiple barrage, with no complaints from anyone.
|
|
|
Post by genilyenovick on Jan 28, 2011 17:59:14 GMT -5
Multiple barrage is usually worked out for a group of barrage weapons like basies. I usually treat them like three different templates. Of course they all target the same unit, but they scatter individually. The idea for multip;le barrage is thatr they use each other to target the same area. This is a cluster of warheads raining death down at the same time, so to me it seems more appropriate and less advantageous and broken to not treat them as multiple barrage.
|
|
|
Post by Beav on Jan 30, 2011 20:50:36 GMT -5
Personally I would to it as a salvo, as it's (I'm guessing) a MIRV warhead so the individual charges would be fairly close together when they actually struck the ground.
|
|
|
Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jan 30, 2011 20:56:19 GMT -5
I treat them as individual templates, like I do for everything that doesn't have "Barrage" in its descriptor.
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Jan 30, 2011 20:58:21 GMT -5
It is supposed to be a mirv style you are right. I prefer the salvo style as it is slightly faster to do. It also strikes me that manticores are supposed to be a replacement for a battery of other ordnance, so it fits that they should work in a similar way.
|
|
|
Post by NobleSeven on Jan 31, 2011 0:45:34 GMT -5
Check out pages 32, 58 and 60 in the HB rulebook to find out specifics on how Ordnance barrage works.
Silver Linings- Take special note on how effective they are against vehicles and their grand pinning capabilities.
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Jan 31, 2011 0:53:01 GMT -5
"If a unit has more than one barrage weapon,..."
Ok, so manticores don't use the multiple barrage rules, as the manticore only has one weapon with multiple shots. A shame but it doesn't really make too much difference.
|
|
|
Post by Paradill on Jan 31, 2011 1:10:46 GMT -5
Individual templates I believe. Never used a manticore, but that's how I would play it. On an unrelated note, I'm fairly certain Trickstick is nocturnal. He's been awake as long as me (and I have a brand new baby keeping me up - hence the night time posting) and it is now 6:15 am... Heresy I recon..
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Jan 31, 2011 1:17:53 GMT -5
Yes I do tend to go for the nocturnal way of things. I used to work nights so I am used to it, although this weekend is special as my housemate is in germany so I'm just staying up modelling and watching things on the xbox. It's not heresy! Um, you are heresy! (If in doubt cast suspicion on others)
Manticores are fun although I prefer basilisks. Manticores seem a bit high tech for guard. I mean, each missile has its own machine spirit. However, there is no denying that manticores are the best artillery we can field without squadroning up.
|
|
|
Post by Paradill on Jan 31, 2011 1:35:04 GMT -5
Hah, yes, I admit it. I am heresy. Manticore's are brilliant as stand alone artillery, I'm probably going to go for basilisks personally, but that's probably something to do genitalia inferiority or something... errrmm look, a flying Jokaero!!
|
|
|
Post by NobleSeven on Jan 31, 2011 1:39:33 GMT -5
Greetings nocturnal brothers.
Another benefit of the Manticore is that it is easier to hide behind cover and deny LOS- the very purpose of such an artillery piece.
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Jan 31, 2011 1:57:02 GMT -5
Well I'm not sure that is the case noble, it depends really. Does the gun shield count as the hull? I know that the barrel doesn't. If the gun shield doesn't count then the manticore is a slightly bigger target, as it has the larger top piece to the hull.
Edit: Looking at the model again it would be a bit off to say the gunshield doesn't count for LOS. Well, at least you don't get penalised for having the barrel up and can't shoot at it if you just see the tip of the gun.
|
|
|
Post by NobleSeven on Jan 31, 2011 2:33:35 GMT -5
Actually had a discussion around the gaming table tonight about this. Just what does the Manticore rocket rack count as for LOS? Or the Basilisk main cannon for that matter?
Pg. 160 of the rulebook states "When a unit fires at a vehicle it must be able to see its hull or turret (ignoring the vehicle's gun barrels, antennas, decorative banner poles, ect.)"
So what counts as a "turret" (which you can gain LOS on) and a "gun barrel" (which you can NOT gain LOS on.)
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Jan 31, 2011 2:44:08 GMT -5
I would say that the two tube sections are the barrel and anything below that counted as a fixed turret/breach. For the manticore you should probably just count it all for LOS; if you shot a missile it wouldn't end well for the manticore.
|
|
|
Post by NobleSeven on Jan 31, 2011 3:05:23 GMT -5
To further complicate things- the Manticore is made so that the Rocket rack can go up and down. The Basilisk too, but not to such a varying degree. This is a cosmetic quality- as Rockets pointed up in the air are just plain cooler than those sitting there on the chassis. But when the rockets are "up" the rack becomes an even greater target for LOS.
This seems similar to trying to target a Hive Tyrant modeled with great, unfurling wings when all he wants to do is fly free! Shouldn't the Manticores of the Imperial Guard be allowed to fly free without consequence?
|
|
|
Post by nchomsky3d on Jan 31, 2011 11:00:58 GMT -5
For LOS, I've always played it that the missiles are the "barrel" and aren't good for LOS, but the rack they are on is the "turret" and can be used.
As for shooting them, I think using 1-3 separate shots makes more sense, and that's what the othe IG guy in my group seems to think as well.
|
|
leinadyor
Captain
A little to the left.
Posts: 171
|
Post by leinadyor on Feb 3, 2011 18:00:24 GMT -5
Well according to the Codex the missiles are "barrage D3" which to me means that if you fire them indirectly then they should butterfly off of the first template but if you fire them directly then you would roll scatter for each template.
For me the biggest strength of the manticore is it's ability to take out any vehicle in the game. I usually tent to fire it at armor that has a load of infantry around it so even if it scatters it's a win win situation.
Lein
|
|
|
Post by Trickstick on Feb 10, 2011 11:30:17 GMT -5
Well according to the Codex the missiles are "barrage D3" which to me means that if you fire them indirectly then they should butterfly off of the first template but if you fire them directly then you would roll scatter for each template Unfortunately manticores do not fire using the multiple barrage rules. Page 32 of the rulebook states: "If a unit has more than one barrage weapon, they are all fired together in a salvo" However, the manticore has only one weapon with d3 templates. Thus, they are always fired as several seperate barrage templates, not as a multiple barrage.
|
|