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Post by stovrose on Feb 14, 2011 15:43:00 GMT -5
I agree with Trickstick, scatter each individually.
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Post by Trickstick on Nov 22, 2011 19:53:37 GMT -5
Necro! Blame DadCRO's gems for pointing me to this.
I just wanted to say that I was wrong about manticores. They do indeed fire as multiple barrage weapons. Makes more sense really.
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Post by DadCRO on Nov 23, 2011 0:18:14 GMT -5
[Technically speaking, the Manticore should never use the multiple barrage rules for placing blast markers, because it is one weapon with multiple shots rather than multiple barrage weapons firing one shot. However, the Eldar FAQ contains a ruling on the Dark Reaper Exarch whereby his reaper launcher does use the multiple barrage rules. This seems a suitable precedent for us as well. ~Editor].
Editor of Tactia Imperium, an Imperial Guard collaborative tactics manual put together by the peeps on Warseer, I think it was. And he's right. Even though it makes more sense the other way.
And I'm glad people are reading DadCRO's Gems!!!
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Post by DadCRO on Nov 23, 2011 0:19:45 GMT -5
Oh wait, you just pointed that out. Where did you get your source that the manticore uses multiple barrage?
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Post by Trickstick on Nov 23, 2011 7:28:36 GMT -5
Well it is partially the exarch thing. However, what actually convinced me is that there are no rules for a single weapon firing multiple blasts at all, never mind barrage. So why should a manticore fire separate blasts if it is not in the rules either? I assume this is an oversight and just settled on using the manticore how it should be used, or at least how I imagine the designer intended it.
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Post by DadCRO on Nov 23, 2011 10:33:56 GMT -5
Use it either way whenever you want, whichever suits you!
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Post by Trickstick on Nov 23, 2011 11:24:08 GMT -5
Well you can do that anyway, just not barrage if you move or it is less than 24".
People don't expect a manticore to come on from reserves and unleash a volley at their land raider. Infact, the whole 'direct fire' thing is probably the rule I have explained the most. I even memorised that it is on page 58.
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Post by DadCRO on Nov 23, 2011 18:09:20 GMT -5
Anti-land raider is what I'm getting a manticore for. ;D And because they're awesome at killing hoards when there are no land raiders to kill.
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Post by Laughing Man on Nov 23, 2011 18:41:56 GMT -5
Had a 2.5 game yesterday, my manticore did what essentially amounted to Sweet F.A. with its missiles, it's only claim to fame was ramming a rhino and wrecking it.
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Nov 24, 2011 6:30:33 GMT -5
I don't have any Manticores, I feel like buying 3, then hiding them behind cover unleashing my deadly salvos. And if no cover is available I will use my chimeras as a artificial wall.
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Post by DadCRO on Nov 28, 2011 0:08:28 GMT -5
Nothing like chimeras for some ablative shielding.
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Post by Pax Urbis Pax Imperi on Nov 28, 2011 20:53:21 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me how you shoot three templates? Do you select a location and then see if it scatters. Then from the original point fire again exactly as before? I saw some guy get to fire three shots and he used it like a multiple barrage?! Shureley Shome Mishtake? You roll a d6, and get 1-2 1 Large blast, 3-4 2 large blasts, or 5-6 3 large blasts. The use the multiple barrage rules, so scatter the first shot as normal, then roll the scatter again and place the other potential templates accordingly based off of the first shot. Interestingly enough, you cannot squadron your Manticores, either with other artillery or with other Manticores. That being said, three Manticores shooting 3 - 9 S10 shots would make ANY army quiver in fear a bit. I prefer to use my Manticores as the ultimate vehicle hunter, with poss S10 shots even a Land Raider will go down. Next target would be infantry in the open, especially horde armies. Manticores are very good Marine killers, since they would get an armor save. Boo!
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Post by WestRider on Nov 28, 2011 21:05:44 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me how you shoot three templates? Do you select a location and then see if it scatters. Then from the original point fire again exactly as before? I saw some guy get to fire three shots and he used it like a multiple barrage?! Shureley Shome Mishtake? You roll a d6, and get 1-2 1 Large blast, 3-4 2 large blasts, or 5-6 3 large blasts. The use the multiple barrage rules, so scatter the first shot as normal, then roll the scatter again and place the other potential templates accordingly based off of the first shot. Only if you're firing Indirectly. If you're direct-firing a Manticore (as per Pg. 58, Main Rulebook), you use the Rules for multiple Blasts, not Multiple Barrages, and scatter the Blasts individually.
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Post by Trickstick on Nov 29, 2011 13:01:48 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, you cannot squadron your Manticores, either with other artillery or with other Manticores. That being said, three Manticores shooting 3 - 9 S10 shots would make ANY army quiver in fear a bit. One of the most fun things I have ever done is fire an Empreror's Deliverance apocalypse formation, consisting of 3 manticores. You roll d6-2 for each manticore, double the combined result and then do an apocayptic barrage with the total. I devastated a vindicator formation with it. It does burn through your rockets though. Good job the formation allows techpriests to reload manticores. Now I want to buy some more manticores and servitors.
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Post by glutebite on Feb 2, 2012 17:29:09 GMT -5
Ok.. I'm totally confused by this thread and how to treat the Manticore for in-direct firing. I've got some rules police people telling me that I have to use multiple-barrage for the templates. BUT I also see that statement about more than one barrage weapon and the Manticore is a single barrage weapon.
IMHO (which is not probably worth $.02) - the Manticore is a single weapon firing with 1 to 3 separate blasts (using the large blast marker/template). If firing indirect then each large blast marker/template is treated separately. Each template/marker will scatter a FULL 2D6 from the point originally targeted. I use the term 'template/marker' to coincide with the terminology that Games Workshop uses.
Look forward to responses...
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Post by DadCRO on Feb 2, 2012 19:01:40 GMT -5
Well using multiple barrage is RAI, single barrages is RAW. But what I want to know is if direct firing is multiple or not. Because each missile goes into multiple sub munitions, so theoretically, even if it direct fired, it would use multiple barrage.
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Post by glutebite on Feb 2, 2012 19:44:21 GMT -5
Ok.. sorry to sound stupid.. But I don't know what RAI and RAW mean.. (I haven't been playing for 40,000 years.....)
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Feb 2, 2012 20:08:54 GMT -5
RAI is rules as interpreted, RAW is rules as written.
I've played it both ways, and honestly, it doesn't really change all that much either way, so leave it up to your opponent for regular games. Though tournaments either one might get you in a pickle of some sort.
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Post by glutebite on Feb 2, 2012 20:51:38 GMT -5
Here is why I also base my thoughts that this is a single barrage weapon with separate D3 blasts templates.
a. A Manticore is just one shot per turn. b. It's not in a squad of Manticores (like a HWS of mortars) c. When you get a weapon destroyed you take out all the missiles and not 1 of 4.
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