My Second Time (At Vets Night)

[Trickstick]

Ok, so I got myself down to GW again today with 1.5k of Guard. Of course, it should of been 1.75k but I was mistaken.

Here is what I took:

CCS - Plasma Pistol, Fist, 3xPG, Vox, Astropath, Chimera

Vets - 3xMG, Vox, Chimera - 160
Vets - 3xMG, Vox, Chimera - 160

Platoon A
Pcs - Vox, 3xGL, Melta Bombs
Inf - Flamer, Vox, Commissar w/PW (the newly converted Commissar Amzid)
Inf - Flamer

Platoon B
Pcs - Vox, 3xGL, Melta Bombs
Inf - Flamer, Vox, Commissar w/PW
Inf - Flamer

2x Demolishers - LC, DB
Manticore

My opponent, Bruce, was Guard with attached daemonhunters. He took something like this:

Grand master with some terminators (about 4 I think)
Power armour dudes with Primaris Psyker
Veterans with 2 melta and flamer
Inquisitor with mystics
4 Vendettas
Marbo

I must say that the Vendettas were what intimidated me. We were playing spearhead and capture and control. Here is the field:



He went first and deployed in the top left. I decided to reserve everything due to lack of cover (my biggest mistake really).

Turn 1 and 2

He basically stuck the vets on his objective in the ruins, the terminators running between the house and the hill. His Vends basically hovered around his side.

I had some poor reserve rolls, only getting 2nd platoon and some vets in. 2nd platoon advanced through the crater and the vets moved 12" and smoked just to the left of that.

Turn 3

The chimera absorbed 4 vends worth of damage and was fine. One of his vends moved flat out towards the centre from the top right. The terminators hugged the house to get a cover save and continued to advance in a conga.

I get the manticore, vets, HQ, 1st platoon and a demolisher. The manticore, HQ and demolisher come in near the hill bottom right (or in the case of the demolisher, over it). 1st platoon comes in to the left of that and the vets follow the first set, with both vets and 2nd platoon heading north. The manticore immobilises the Vend that went flat out, dropping the primaris+GKs just left of the middle hill.

Turn 4

Marbo jump into the now empty crater and takes out 7 of 1st platoon. Vendetta fire takes out the first vet squad's and the HQ's chimeras. The terminator's psycannon stuns the manticore.

Both pcs surround marbo, but he goes to ground and takes no krak wounds. The platoons move up on both the primaris/grand master, taking one each. The last demolisher rolls over the hill, its dozer blade saving it from being immobilised.

Turn 5

He cuts a bloody mess through my army, charging both platoons and taking out the last chimeras and a demolisher. The grand master does roll five 1s though, which got a laugh.

I don't do much as most things are stunned or pinned from dead tranports.

turn 6

More dead Guardsmen in melee. Marbo is still pinned though.

A very good turn for me though. One of the vets squads manages to charge the vets on his objective, winning by 2 and making him flee, consolidating far enough to contest the point. Commissar Amzid stops the men from fleeing from first platoon. When I say men, I mean a sarge and a flamer, the other sarge having been shot last turn. 2nd platoon dies.

So a draw in what is likely to be my only ever fight against the Daemonhunters. I really came from behind with that veteran charge, I think it is the first assault that I have ever won. The game was really fun and I learned a lot about setting up terrain. Also, the manticore got its first blood and Commissar Amzid didn't die horribly.

[Shostak(AWOL)]

Another vey nice bat rep Trickstick.

[Trickstick]

Thanks Shostak. I try to writ it up while it is fresh in my mind but I must admit sometimes I wonder if things happened on the turns I remember. I think it is a nice way to record my once a week games. I'm looking forward to next week, I may put my sentinels and riders back in for a laugh, maybe some heavy weapons squads.

Looking at the map there may have been some more terrain on his side but it didn't affect the game any so I may have forgotten about it.

[dcrabb]

Great report Trickstick. I've found that playing bold going for it (but not stupid) has helped me win or at least avoid defeat on several occassions.

I have a couple of questions to help me with thought on my army list:

1. You have 7 Voxs in your list. How did they affect the game? Were they worth the points?
2. Your opponent took Marbo, did he affect you enough to justify the points for one model?
3. When you fired your Manticore the turn it arrived you direct fired it right? Cause an ordinance barrage weapon can't move and shoot and ord barrage on the same turn.
4. How did the demolishers do? I worry about their shorter range, would regular Russes have worked better to reach further targets?

Thanks for the help and good luck,
Doug

[Trickstick]

I'll try to give a few answers.

1. I find the voxes quite useful, they are not great but fun and look good. If I was building an ultra hard list I would probably leave them out for more special weapons, but I have the models and like them enough that the small cost is justified. They can also eat the first wound in command squads.

2. Marbo is good but too much of a liability in KP games. I would rather get some STs or something I think, although as long as you put him in cover he is very hard to shift. I played a KP game today where my opponent failed to do this and he died after doing nothing.

3. Yup, fired it direct. Such an awesome little rule.

4. The demolishers, I still haven't decided on. They are awesome but the range is a real problem. I think that my list could be improved by adding some long range power, all I really have is the manticore, which as you probably guessed is everyones main target.

[dcrabb]

Thanks, I haven't found a tactical situation yet to use voxes with my Mech guard.

You're spot on Marbo needs to be deployed in cover. I've used him a few times and his demo pack has been nothing more than a method of suicide - twice. In each case he was in the open and didn't get a cover save. The jury is still out on him cause he did kill a stealthsuit sq in one game and a broadside unit in another.

I used a Manticore once and found the AP value wanting. Too many Space Marines shrug off the Strike Eagle rockets. Now against orks, nids, and other 4+ or higher saves they might be of greater value.

I have a new infatuation with the plain jane leman russ. That 72" Str 8 AP 3 battle cannon just squishes SMs into jelly. And at 150 pts with no sponsons and hull bolter its cheaper than a Manticore.

[mccaptain]

Yeah, but for and extra 15pts it can crush ANYTHING. 72" range is more than you need and I personally have never found the demolishers 24" range to be a hindrance. The ability to squash any infantry unit on the board and punch through AV14 like its your job makes the Demolisher seem to be a better choice than the standard pattern.

[dcrabb]

Mccaptain, true the Demolisher is great but each Russ has it's own role to play depending on the style/tactics of the player. I like to reserve everything and the ability to bring on a battle cannon that can drop a Str 8 AP 3 pie plate anywhere on the board it can see as soon as it arrives is pretty cool for me and scary for the other guy. It really works well if your Astropath helps you bring two or three at the same time. A Demo can't do that unless you bring Creed and out flank it but that's a lot more points.

If you play with your units starting on the table you can plunk your Demolisher down near the middle of the table to make up for its shorter range. With a shorter range you have to be more careful where you place it. I took an Executioner and it got immobilized in a corner first turn and with it's 36" range it did nothing for me until late in the game when the enemy was almost upon me. IG players have to be more careful where they place shorter ranged weapons if they want to get full effect from them. Longer range is a bit more forgiving to less experienced/less capable generals.

You are right a battle cannon can't squash every unit on the board but it gets almost all. Termies and Broadsides are about the only exceptions and I take lots of plasma guns and meltas for those.

As for punching through AV 14 you are right again the Demolisher is better than a battle cannon russ when it gets close enough, but I take meltavets in Vendettas for enemy armor.

My style of play is to use battle cannon russes at the back to pound the enemy as he comes across the board. I use my 'dettas to outflank and threaten his objective(s) while gun lining or rushing forward with my chimera mounted infantry both slow him down and give my russes plenty of turns to take shots kinda like artillery but with better armor. If I were to change my tactics and use a tank led assault rather than a Chimera/'detta led one the Demolisher would be the tank of choice. Once I get my current tactics perfected maybe I try that for something new.

[Rook]

Finally a player who uses voxes and dozer blades. I find both to be almost pre-chosen before I write a list.

Trickstick: Is there a reason you didn't assault Marbo instead of firing GLs at him?

dcrabb: With your questions about his army you got me thinking...

What I need to do is analyze a unit/squad/vehicle/etc every time I use it. Literally ask myself "if this unit can't perform what can?". Obviously the point cost will be a deciding factor, but I believe it will be very easy to decide which type of Leman Russ would be better in a particular situation. Then just field the better choice next time perhaps.

[dcrabb]

Rook, finding a good IG list is more than picking the highest stat units for the lowest cost. It includes meshing those units in into a cohesive battle plan to pit your strengths against your opponents weaknesses while protecting your weaknesses from your opponents strengths. Doing that requires a specific task for each unit and a battle plan that allows each unit to accomplish that task. Start with a plan that includes, how you want to fight, what opponents might you be facing and how do they fight. Once you do that you can tailor the IG force to your needs and the enemy's doom.