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Post by Laughing Man on May 18, 2011 11:10:24 GMT -5
Lords
Ikit Claw
Heroes
chieftain, upgraded to bsb with warlock forged blade
level 2 warlock engineer, with warplock pistol, doom rocket and warp tokens
level 1 warlock engineer with warplock musket, pipes of pieblade and warplock optics
Core
40 stormvermin with shields, full command, warplock pistol and doomflayer
40 stormvermin with shields, full command, warplock pistol and poison wind mortar
40 clanrats with shields and spears, full command and ratling gun
40 clanrats with shields and spears, full command and warpfire thrower
Special
4 jezzail teams + 1 sharpshooter team
4 jezzail teams + 1 sharpshooter team
4 jezzail teams + 1 sharpshooter team
Rare
Doomwheel
Doomwheel
Warp Lightning Cannon
Warplightning Cannon
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Post by F.K.M on May 18, 2011 23:40:55 GMT -5
You are aware BSB's can't wield any other magical items right?
Well you chose the right path and went skaven (For the Horned Rat) but i think some of this needs fixing. I have 2 doom flayers and maybe i need more practice using them but they suck. I know you're going for weapons teams but with 8th edition if you don't have huge hordes of 6-8 ranks esp. in a game of 3k points you're going to be in trouble. Maybe the warp lightning cannons will help with this and maybe not. Doomwheels can be a good monster killer as well as even kill knights but remember they suck when charged and their target may even kill them. Not to mention the random movement could hurt you pretty bad. You should never be able to kill enemy cannons with the doomwheels due to enemy units unfortunately.
What banners are you taking btw if any? Yes it does matter. With this many units you can have a lot. I'd say the most useful thing you can do is the wailing banner (terror)+horned rat banner (-1 enemy Ld within 12" and enemy re-rolls all Ld checks in base contact with banner). It can suck if you're fighting dwarfs or possibly lizardmen but if you're fighting an enemy with lower leadership like elves or something maybe then you'll do just fine theoretically. It can be an awesome combo because you have them roll for a terror check at -1 Ld and then roll a fear check and re-roll it if successful. Not to mention if you get the enemy to lose combat they have to re-roll their break test at -1 Ld (if not steadfast as i think steadfast negates it). The other banner you should take is either the under-empire one or more likely the storm banner which will save your ass from war machines and shooting.
I'm not a fan of ratling guns but that's me. I am also not to keen on the idea of you having 4 40 man units. Like i said you should have a big unit of guys so they can be steadfast. If you do go this route however you may want to take tretch craventail. He's only a chieftain and gives all 4 of these units bonuses if you flank. He can also change units so that he stays in the enemy's flank. He basically allows your flank to always re-roll to hit.
Stormvermin have 2 handed weapons so their shields only work when being shot or having magic thrown at them.
You have to have skitterleap which you should get and then skitterleap the doomrocket guy at the side of an entire army line. That way you can get a lot of hits with a large template at str 5.
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Post by Laughing Man on May 19, 2011 8:31:32 GMT -5
BSB can only have no magic items if they take a magic banner.
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Post by F.K.M on May 19, 2011 10:37:59 GMT -5
Yeah i guess you're right. Fantasy has way too many different rules.
You seriously need to beef up your units though. 40 man units will be crappy unless you take them in 8 ranks of 5 but that'd be stupid. See in a big 3k game or even smaller i've seen people take stupidly big units and few of them. Now being skaven you need big units so you can be steadfast and you need ranks for leadership. Trust me if you don't you'll lose combat by a lot and morale will go down the nutster because you're not steadfast. If you attempt a flank that might do something but it probably won't. I just don't like the idea of 40 man units at 3k points. It just feels suicidal in 8th.
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Post by Laughing Man on May 19, 2011 10:49:12 GMT -5
Oh well, it'll be fun.
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Post by F.K.M on May 19, 2011 12:23:04 GMT -5
Well with my luck on doomwheel i'd say they're only successful about 25-33% of the time but when they do well they really bring it home. Use it as a monster killer as it won't get close to cannons. I've never been able to get it near cannons. Once again its weakness is being charged. If your doomwheel gets charged chances are you may as well say goodbye to it. Also remember it has terror but since it can't charge it does cause a reaction. This is good in the sense of the hellpit and doomwheel not getting shot at with a stand and shoot reaction but it means no terror checks as well. However it still causes fear even in fear causing units.
Jezzails i have none of yet but they are good knight killers. My fear with this army is that 2 casualties will cause a panic though to be fair a unit of 10 doesn't do much either so small units is probably better. The unfortunate thing about the codex being made before 8th is you can tell this unit should have the sniper special rule. I mean it basically is one.
I've heard the doom rocket usually sucks but i've heard similar with the plague furnace. The plague furnace is good on all but armies big on cannons. Doom rocket i've heard is very inaccurate since you roll dice for range and you guess. That's why you need to skitterleap the guy at the side of the enemy's entire battle line.
Like i said in at least the last 3-4 games the doom flayers have done jack nuts for me. Weapons teams are initiative 3 and even if you somehow charged the same unit as its parent unit with a +3 armor save (front arc) and +4 ward save it'll still die. I've lost one to skink skirmishers. It's pretty bad actually since it only has one wound.
I've seen the poisoned wind mortar do a good job against knights when there's a lot of them. Same could probably be said against warriors of chaos. The more units they hit and the more points heavy the better.
The warp lightning cannons could hurt you badly. I've heard extremes on both ends of the story. Since you have 2 doomwheels i think you'd do best to use the cannons against rank and file to whittle them down so you might get steadfast in combat.
Considering the army you've taken the magic and shooting are the only things that might save it. When this army hits melee it's gonna get shredded. This isn't true for all skaven as i have plague monks with a plague furnace, combining censer bearers and their frenzy and hatred with the 'bless with filth' spell (poisoned melee attacks) and the hellpit among other things will totally wreck your opponent's day. Since 8th is about hordes you may need 3 or so big units and then not much of anything else.
Your list is looking like you're hoping to shoot them enemy and pick them off from the distance and use the warp lightning cannons to destroy the masses. Against some armies this is fine but against dwarfs and empire it probably won't be. If they don't kill your artillery with theirs and force you to slowly move up to them i'd be surprised. This army would probably destroy elves since they suck at shooting. Against beastmen and tomb kings they'd probably flank behind your army. Orcs and goblins would probably do the annoying night goblin mass with netters and
My other opinion is protect your cannons with your life. If they die from anything then this battle could turn for the worse quickly. You only have the 6 skaven spells. This means you can only cast scorch once per turn, death frenzy is ok for you but still won't do much, skitterleap is good in certain situations, cracks call sucks unless you combine it with skitterleap, warp lightning is now utter garbage thanks to 8th edition and the anti-shooting and flying spell is alright (you'll probably need it though as skaven usually do even if war machines are the bigger worry compared to guns that use BS). You're relying on 2 weapons teams i hate (doom flayer, ratling gun), 1 which you might only get to shoot once or twice all game (warpfire thrower) and one that might miss half the time (poisoned wind mortar). Finally you have the leader which is a bad ass admittedly but he should be for about 400 pts. His magic will help you and i hear his magic attack was FAQ'd to be able to go through armor so the artillery dice str 5 attack he does avoids armor which is needed. He has a good amount of firepower.
As i said if i had a shooting army i'd use my cannons to kill yours. I'd charge your doomwheels with an infantry unit if at all possible. Then i'd just stand back and shoot your army to death and force them to attack me in melee which they'd lose at due to the amount of ranks you currently have.
Monsters and large targets should die against this army though and you might do well against some units.
Another good thing about this army is that having so many units means you can deploy each little by little while your enemy has 3 or 4 to plop down. Sure he'll get +1 to see who goes first but you get a tactical advantage to place your guys where you want after he's deployed his force.
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