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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 19, 2011 18:03:39 GMT -5
Of course, all of you Imperium of Mankind fan people are forgetting that blasters, the common hand weapon used in Star Wars, are PLASMA weapons. So no armor save for anyone getting shot by a blaster...  We'll just ignore Tau for purposes of this discussion.  And along came the GK FAQ... |
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Post by emptyhat on Jun 19, 2011 20:26:51 GMT -5
Are Sith/Jedi subject to "Perils of the Warp"?
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Post by Trickstick on Jun 19, 2011 20:52:02 GMT -5
Ack, I was pleased that I had not encountered one of these threads on the IGMB. Ah well, if we must...
The Imperium of Man would win. There are a few reasons for this.
First off, the IoM is about eleventy billion times larger than the GE. That seems like a good enough reason so I thought I would put it first. I think that if you put the GE into the 40 'verse then it would only take a decent sized crusade to wipe it out. Hell, even the Tau could probably have a go. They may not win, but they could try.
Second, a star destroyer is about a mile long. An Imperial cruiser is about 3.5 miles long. My money is on the IoM.
Lastly, the IoM has even less morals than a sith lord that likes to torture small rabbits. If they have to slay billions of their own people to win, they probably would.
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Post by F.K.M on Jun 19, 2011 21:12:05 GMT -5
I'm trying not to take into account the EU because it has some pretty outrageous nuts in it esp. as far as the jedi are concerned. I've been told luke skywalker is basically a freaking god now. I don't doubt he's as powerful as yoda in some cases or at least pretty damn powerful whether more or less than yoda but being a freaking god is ridiculous. Next fanboy love of boba fett urinate me off and the EU extended it. Nowhere in the original trilogy was he ever once shown as a bad ass. He was just some bounty hunter that was good enough to find han solo. Other than that he never showed any awesome skills ever, EVER. Since we're doing galactic empire they basically only have two jedi to worry about and i'd be much more afraid of a librarian to be honest. Mephiston would female dog slap those two without trouble even if both are bad asses in their own right.
So basically from what was seen they had a couple death stars over different times, a lot of big ships, a huge ass super star destroyer (possibly 4), crappy fighters and bombers and soldiers who may be well trained but for the most part lack actual combat experience since they only fight rebels. On the imperium side we have a very combat based side that may have problems with soldier morale but also has powerful vehicles, super heavies, titans and land based weapons that make the AT-AT look like a little female dog. It has large numbers of poorly equipped troops with great vehicles and good heavy weapons which can learn from combat over decades of fighting (something stormtroopers won't often do). They have sisters of battle, space marines, inquisition and grey knights. The imperium even has exterminatus. I think what it'd come down to is the space battles. It's already been said the imperium would totally just own on the ground. Also though people forget it in the movies jedi are still just basically humans. When something can kill a human it can kill them. Blasters can kill a jedi when shot in their backs. So much for them seeing through a trap. The biggest things jedi did in the movies was throw huge discs at each other and luke barely managed to kill a rancor using the force on a door control. Librarians frequently kill things the size of a carnifex. Plus seeing in the movies a lightsaber cutting through armor takes quite a bit. Also we have no idea how jedi would deal with massive explosions which is something the guard have a lot of. Not to mention bathing an area in fire like with hellhounds or poison with banewolves would also probably kill them. Sure mace windu used his light saber to stupidly block a flamethrower but if an area was bathed in poison gas or flames they'd be dead. If the imperium had too much trouble they'd just virus bomb an area or a whole planet if they had to and the jedi would just disintegrate.
So i'm thinking jedi could be handled by the imperium as long as you don't throw the retarded EU into the mix which makes everything ridiculous. To be fair 40k is over the top but the stories expand on it they don't break it as badly (except Goto). I've heard the star wars EU is really good but i think making luke skywalker jesus christ on steroids was a bad decision. Once again i think it'll all come down to the space battles. Considering how easily the galactic empire lost and considering how the imperium has endured for 10 millenia engaged on all sides i think we know who the winner of this contest would be.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 19, 2011 21:46:46 GMT -5
Trickstick, the Imperium is half to 2/3rds of our galaxy, the Empire was almost all of their galaxy. And I've read nothing suggesting that theirs was a smaller galaxy.
And while size doesn't matter in ship to ship combat, the Imperium does posses longer ranged weapons. But they're also less reliable. And the Empire's ships had SO much more weaponry shoved onto them.
Morals notwithstanding, the efficacy of the crew would depend entirely on the Emperor helping them (Empire).
And Emptyhat, why in the name of sanity would perils ever apply to anything not from the 40K universe?
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Post by Kaikelx on Jun 19, 2011 21:52:23 GMT -5
@fkm: Starkiller. Just.....Starkiller. Starkiller is the Empire's Luke Skywalker.
Also, no EU? Come on....It's the GE's only fighting chance. In the EU, they're actually competent, and you almost forget how one fighter and one bomber squadron took down their first giant money sink, and a handful of fighters the second.
Space battles would be interesting.....To my knowledge, IoM Fighters operate a lot like TIE Fighters, except more durable and less maneuverable, but just as expendable....Also, if I'm not mistaken, Star Destroyers are pretty darn nimble by IoM standards
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 19, 2011 21:55:48 GMT -5
Yeah, most Star Wars capital ships are fairly quick and agile, comparatively, and don't have to worry about micrometeorites. Seriously, GW... you made ships with a ridiculous tonnage, and then said they couldn't fully accelerate until out of a solar system's dust field. WTF.
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Post by emptyhat on Jun 19, 2011 22:32:09 GMT -5
Well if the warp effects the force in this match up it might be quite important. Try to cast some Sith lightning and end up accidentally pulling a Bloodthirster out of your robes could be significant.
Or do you think that when we mix universes like this that metaphysical mystical forces are like oil and water?
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 19, 2011 22:34:18 GMT -5
If you can't take each universe at it's full potential, then it's not a real contest. The Force would be as unaffected by the warp as the Imperium's ships would be unaffected by interdictor cruisers. (And if the IoM's ships were to be effected by interdictors, then hands down, Empire wins.)
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Jun 20, 2011 3:44:41 GMT -5
If you can't take each universe at it's full potential, then it's not a real contest. The Force would be as unaffected by the warp as the Imperium's ships would be unaffected by interdictor cruisers. (And if the IoM's ships were to be effected by interdictors, then hands down, Empire wins.) Interdictor's only effect hyperspace travel and disrupt guided missiles, to my knowledge the imperium of man torpedoes are dumb and only travel in the one direction. |
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jun 20, 2011 3:58:48 GMT -5
I have only one thing to say.
DrangYoda.
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Post by Laughing Man on Jun 20, 2011 9:30:35 GMT -5
Personally i think the fight would boil down into a tag team match of Han Solo and Lando vs Ciaphas Cain and Kal Jericho... Who ever wins the most card games, races and seduces the most ladies wins.
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Post by Kaikelx on Jun 20, 2011 10:48:45 GMT -5
Personally i think the fight would boil down into a tag team match of Han Solo and Lando vs Ciaphas Cain and Kal Jericho... Who ever wins the most card games, races and seduces the most ladies wins. Well in this scenario, practically EVERYBODY wins. In space, I think it would come down to the IoM trying to stand off and use it's range/abundance of ballistic weaponry (I don't think GE shields block missiles and the like), while the GE tries to close the distance to unleash their large numbers of weapon batteries (Just check how many turbolasers a Star Destroyer has). Again, I'd be really interested in the fighter dog fights, especially since GE pilots might actually live longer than against Rebel Fighters. For land battles, the GE might actually put up a decent fight now that I think about it, the GE's repulsor tanks compare favorably to the Leman Russ, being armed with laser beams and (at least in battlefront) missiles, being extremely mobile, able to temporarily boost weapon power, and best of all, shielded. Link: starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TX-130T_fighter_tankThe GE's main advantage in land battles would be air support. Unlike the IoM's air force, the GE's Fighters and bombers can stay in the combat zone near indefinitely, and they do not run out of ammunition for their guns. Plus, apparently the GE Army has quite the list of vehicles that I'm still trying to sort through, at first glance, quite a few seem to be repulsorlift vehicles. link starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_ArmyOh, and apparently, a superlaser, the same kind used in the death stars was mounted in a star destroyer: starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Conqueror_%28superlaser%29The GE also apparently used equipment associated with the Confederacy from the Clone Wars, including the spider droid. They also used different types of battle droids, including the Dark Troopers (I think they were droids), assassin droids, and unmanned TIE fighters. |
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Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Jun 20, 2011 10:59:10 GMT -5
Who do you think would win. Discuss. The mere suggestion that anyone other than the Imperium might win is heresy. You know what we do to heretics... Stop this madness before I call the Commissars... |
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Post by Laughing Man on Jun 20, 2011 11:41:48 GMT -5
If you look at it then the Imperium navy has only really 1 tactic. fire torps then form firing lines for broadsides.
The GE fleet on the other hand is a lot more adaptable especially in the hands of Officers like Thrawn and Daala.
If thrawn gets his hands on art work from the Imperium then he's won.
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Post by Trickstick on Jun 20, 2011 11:50:47 GMT -5
If you look at it then the Imperium navy has only really 1 tactic. fire torps then form firing lines for broadsides. Really? I always imagine them using a tactic similar to Nelson's at Trafalgar:  They use their armoured prows to weather the fire of the enemy whilst they close in a line astern formation. They then cut the opposition fleet into smaller sections and unload both sides of their firepower into the front and rear of the enemy. This doubles the amount of fire that they can bring on target at close range while at the same time limiting enemy fire to long range shots. The torpedoes proceed ahead of the fleet to disrupt and weaken the enemy. At least this is how I plan to use my fleet. Get in close, right down their throat and use your ships to support one another. If the enemy is turned to face you then you need to concentrate your line between their ships, reducing their broadsides to one side only. This halves their firepower. |
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 20, 2011 12:51:32 GMT -5
I second Trickstick on this, although I will say I've never played Gothic, so I'm basing my knowledge of starship combat experiences I've had in Rogue Trader.
Chaos warships tend to be equipped with longer ranges weapons and more dorsal mounts, meaning they're much more likely to stand off and engage targets at a distance. Imperial warships, on the other hand, tend to have weapons mounted on the prow, port, and starboard sides. This gives them a wider field of fire at the cost of diffusing the amount of firepower they can put in any one direction. That, combined with the ability to use torpedo tubes to break up enemy formations, and the armoured prows Trickstick mentioned, means it's usually in the best interest of an Imperial ship of the line to close and engage with most enemy battle lines. Frigates and raiders, on the other hand, tend to be more designed for ranged attacks and hit and run maneuvers.
Reds
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Post by Kaikelx on Jun 20, 2011 13:16:05 GMT -5
Say the IoM launched a boarding action, and managed to capture a standard GE Star Destroyer relatively intact. From the action, they have lots of shot-up Storm Trooper armor, and access to their blaster guns, along with the droids and vehicles. (Let's say this particular one was on it's way to supply land forces).
What do you think the IoM would do?
Also, are IoM Titans capable of air defense?
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Post by Empirespy on Jun 20, 2011 13:41:02 GMT -5
All this interesting war stuff sounds great but lets think about this, what did it take to destroy the galactic empire? Kill the emperor, they crumbled, they gave up. Noow think how easy it would be to kill a mobile target. send a crusade in to his place boom the IoM wins. Now if people were to find out the the EoM had been killed the IoM would crumble too, but try killing someone who is already dead, guarded by the adeptus custodes, it's very hard. Even if they managed it then who would know? They would never make it off Terra and the High lords would say that the Emperor protected the people and he is still alive and make some speech inspiring people to great acts of valour. Trooper I believe that blasters are laser weapons starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Laser_blaster |
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 20, 2011 13:45:40 GMT -5
First: the shields in Star Wars protected against energy and impact, with some that added extra juice against energy.
Second: the Empire, were it interested in attacking the 'head' of the Imperium, would just blow up Terra. No muss, no fuss... Galaxy Gun.
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Post by F.K.M on Jun 20, 2011 14:36:04 GMT -5
First: the shields in Star Wars protected against energy and impact, with some that added extra juice against energy. Second: the Empire, were it interested in attacking the 'head' of the Imperium, would just blow up Terra. No muss, no fuss... Galaxy Gun. Well to be fair this is the EU again. I'm sorry but i just hate some of the EU. I can understand thrawn but are we talking about the imperial remnant or the galactic empire? You see there's a big deal about what they did in each time period. |
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 20, 2011 14:42:32 GMT -5
Well, it's Imperium of Man vs. Galactic Empire. That narrows it to post-clone wars, pre-crab people.
Basically the Empire while it had all the cool stuff.
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Post by F.K.M on Jun 20, 2011 15:56:12 GMT -5
Crab people, crab people, look like crabs walk like people. God i love that south park episode lol.
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Post by Laughing Man on Jun 20, 2011 16:07:01 GMT -5
Of course if the GE has access to all its superweapons then that'll be interesting. The Galaxy gun can fire planet busting weapons from anywhere in the galaxy. Also the sun crusher is impervious to all damage and can send stars into supernova, even dropping into the Core of a Gas Giant just ruined the paint work.
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Post by F.K.M on Jun 20, 2011 16:12:01 GMT -5
Of course if the GE has access to all its superweapons then that'll be interesting. The Galaxy gun can fire planet busting weapons from anywhere in the galaxy. Also the sun crusher is impervious to all damage and can send stars into supernova, even dropping into the Core of a Gas Giant just ruined the paint work. Is it impervious to space marine strike teams? Yeah i don't think it is. |
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