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Post by captinsky on Sept 15, 2011 5:10:47 GMT -5
Alright, so im going to get one of these and i know the box comes with both, but im putting togther the list for a tournement and im wondering which i should go for. most of the armies will be marines with a couple of orks and tyranids so pretty standard armies. so does anyone have any suggestions on which tank and their loadouts?
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Post by Beav on Sept 15, 2011 5:12:31 GMT -5
the executioner might slice n dice marines and what not, but the demolisher will grab whatever is within 24" and pound it into a pancake
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Post by krasimirova on Sept 15, 2011 10:08:29 GMT -5
Well it is a question about the rest of your list really.. The demolisher isn't as multi purpose as the std. leman tank, but still is a very general tank.. If your lucky and roll a hit on the scatter dice, normally stuff goes "Poof" or "Splat".. And the large blast is really neat to catch alot of expensive units, even if they are placed 2" apart.. + Since it is ordnance and S10 it is on of the most reliable things you can take out armor with.. Ohh.. And it is S10, so can insta Gib stuff.. Stuff on wolves.. Thunderwolves... mmhh.. Now the Executioner is a different tank, you wouldn't use it against armor since it is Heavy 3 and not ordnance (Which would be pretty damn neat!) So your "left" with infantry or MC's.. AP2 like the demolisher lets it target all enemy infantry units, personally i find it is best used against TEQ's (well daaahh) and FNP BA assault marines, since the amount of blasts will make it possible to get more wounds allocated onto the enemy unit.. And since we are talking about a unit of infantry models, the scatter dice won't hurt you as much as with a tank.. + You are almost sure to get a "hit" on the scatter dice atleast once.. MC's are a bit different target, the prime targets would be a hive tyrant with guards, since any wound allocated to the unit will bring down either the damage output or the shield on the damage output.. Then we have things as range, with a 12" difference it is quite significante, but it really depends on what your army list.. Both tanks are really nice, but serve different roles.. Hope it helps a bit Kras..
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Post by WestRider on Sept 15, 2011 10:41:07 GMT -5
Kras pretty much nailed it. The Demolisher will pound on pretty much anything with more or less equal effectiveness. The Executioner is probably the premier Heavy Infantry killer in the Game right now.
Which of those two sounds more like what you need in your List?
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Post by sj on Sept 15, 2011 12:27:12 GMT -5
Kras pretty much nailed it. The Demolisher will pound on pretty much anything with more or less equal effectiveness. The Executioner is probably the premier Heavy Infantry killer in the Game right now. Which of those two sounds more like what you need in your List? Personaly when i made that choice some time ago i took Executioner and never looked back. Sometimes i have tried using LRMBT but it is not the same. My prime reason was that i wanted to have something able to put many hits on anything and hurt it. IG has other stuff for killing MEQ and smaller. But i felt that MC killing might be bit difficult without going very close to the enemy.
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Post by visitor on Sept 15, 2011 19:26:00 GMT -5
Just want to put in my 2 cents. Since the demolisher has a shorter range, and a very high str, if you fire it close to the tank it DOES have the chance to go haywire on you if the scatter dice rolls poorly. While it isn't a game breaker, it wouldn't hurt to remember it.
The executioner's str 7 means you can pretty much fire point blank and not worry about frying your tank.
Once more, just my two cents.
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Post by jenburdoo on Sept 15, 2011 20:59:41 GMT -5
I have both -- ie, Demolisher turrets with Executioner barrels I can slot over the Demo gun. Typically I go for the Executioner, but the option is there, and if you can take it you should.
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Post by Welsh Paul on Sept 16, 2011 3:06:07 GMT -5
I have both -- ie, Demolisher turrets with Executioner barrels I can slot over the Demo gun. Typically I go for the Executioner, but the option is there, and if you can take it you should. Is that standard on the Demolisher/Executioner/Punisher kit? I bought my first new LR kit recently and had to use liberal amounts of green stuff and some strong magnets to hold the gun turret together and still be able to swap weapons.
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Post by krasimirova on Sept 16, 2011 4:20:28 GMT -5
Welsh: I too use rare earth magnets, that way you'll have interchangable turret, hull and sponson loadouts.. But there are a large number of ways you can do it..
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Post by Kommissar Orren on Sept 17, 2011 14:16:27 GMT -5
Personally, I disagree about the Executioner not being good against armour. It can take out transports(AV11-12) pretty easily.
If I had to choose between the 2 of them, I'd probably pick the Executioner. It can get more wounds on a target than a Demolisher, especially when the enemy spreads out troops. It's WAAAY better at Anti-Inf (Heavy and normal), and at taking out MCs. 3 Wounds possible on an MC versus 1 Wound. Both have the same AP, so nothing gets armour. The only real advantage I see with the Demolisher is yeah, Str 10, meaning insta-death for MEQs, and Bikers. But then again, I'd rather force a termie with a Storm Shield to make three, 3+ saves rather than one 3+ save. Or even a multi-wound model with a 4+ or 5+ to make more saves. It just seems better chances of killing the model to me.
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Post by WestRider on Sept 17, 2011 19:08:18 GMT -5
Personally, I disagree about the Executioner not being good against armour. It can take out transports(AV11-12) pretty easily. It's important to distinguish between being good against Light or Heavy Armour, yes. The Exterminator can do alright against Light Armour (12 or below), but isn't exactly great at it compared to what it can do against Infantry, and it certainly lacks the Demolisher's ability to handle heavier Armour.
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Post by jenburdoo on Sept 17, 2011 21:56:27 GMT -5
Is that standard on the Demolisher/Executioner/Punisher kit? I assume so, but my own conversion is much cruder; I use ribbed glue-caps for my plasma barrels, and they clip perfectly over the old metal Demolisher barrels.
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Obscura
Lieutenant
Danger Close
Posts: 124
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Post by Obscura on Sept 18, 2011 3:16:16 GMT -5
Ultimately depends on your local gaming scene.
For myself, I've found that the Executioner with Plasma Cannon sponsons does exceedingly well against the MEQ pick up games I find myself in. In a way, your best bet would be to have another slot relegated to defeating Armor while using the Executioner to chew threw whatever happens to be inside of it ( if it's a transport option ) or use it to eat through hard hitting elites.
That's what works for me, but once again, really depends on your gaming scene.
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Post by F.K.M on Sept 18, 2011 16:58:38 GMT -5
I think both tanks are great choices. I'd only use 3 of the 7 tanks the guard have and executioners, demolishers and the normal leman russ all make the cut. Demolishers can instant kill some of the tougher things and go through their armor. Pretty good if you have to face mega nobs or ogryns for whatever reason but usually tanks (however meltaguns and other ap 1 are usually best vs. vehicles). Executioners you should probably have more of than demolishers. They kill MEQ and termie forces just fine.
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Post by jenburdoo on Sept 18, 2011 21:20:56 GMT -5
I'm pretty much like Obscura -- I love the Demolisher cannon for sheer killing power, but I use the Executioner more often since I face a lot of MEQ infantry.
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Post by krasimirova on Sept 19, 2011 1:48:15 GMT -5
Personally, I disagree about the Executioner not being good against armour. It can take out transports(AV11-12) pretty easily. It isn't good against armor.. Small blast, scatter dice, sure you will have 3 tries, but a 4+ to penetrate is only 50%, if you scatter outside the hull it cant do anything.. The demolisher can still hurt it with the dual ordnance dice... Sure it can do armor, but it isn't what it is ment for.. Don't use a screwdriver to hammer a nail...
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Post by WestRider on Sept 19, 2011 10:58:10 GMT -5
Personally, I disagree about the Executioner not being good against armour. It can take out transports(AV11-12) pretty easily. It isn't good against armor.. Small blast, scatter dice, sure you will have 3 tries, but a 4+ to penetrate is only 50%, if you scatter outside the hull it cant do anything.. The demolisher can still hurt it with the dual ordnance dice... If you've got Plasma Sponsons on there, it's got about a 25% chance of killing a Rhino in one go. Not great, but not terrible, and actually about on par with the Demolisher's chances of pulling the same thing off.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 19, 2011 11:28:23 GMT -5
And for close to 100 points more.
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Post by krasimirova on Sept 19, 2011 12:04:27 GMT -5
And for close to 100 points more. x 2 I didn't think we where talking about sponsons, because running multi melta sponsons on a Demolisher works very well towards the synergi of its role.. Listen i am not saying that you can't kill a Rhino with a Executioner + plasma sponsons.. What I am saying is that it would be a gazillion times better played by you if you shot the Rhino with a autocannon and used the 5 plasma cannon shots on the MEQ's inside.. Actually firing any Leman but a Vanquisher or a Exterminator against armor is a bad game plan come to think of it..
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Post by Julian Sharps on Sept 19, 2011 12:37:22 GMT -5
However, if you found yourself in the position where you needed to kill a tank with a Battle Cannon, Nova Cannon, Demolisher Cannon, Punisher Gatling Cannon or Executioner Plasma Cannon, the Demolisher would probably be your best bet at actually killing it.
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Post by krasimirova on Sept 19, 2011 13:11:16 GMT -5
Ohh 100% correct.. Nothing says Phase out more than a demolisher cannon against a Monolith.. Well maybe a full unit of Nobs with Klaws.. But yeah all IG players like a good bang...
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Post by WestRider on Sept 19, 2011 19:41:52 GMT -5
I just figured I'd throw in the Sponsons because I've never seen anyone run an Executioner without them.
And for the Builds I was comparing, there's really very little price difference. I run my Demolishers with Hull Lascannon and Plasma Sponsons, and my Executioners with Hull Heavy Flamers and Plasma Sponsons, so it's really only a 10 Point difference.
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Post by krasimirova on Sept 20, 2011 4:38:39 GMT -5
Westrider; You can't just presume that, when you are giving a guy advice..
Back to topic:
- captainroberts: Look at the 3rd post.
In general, you shouldn't use Lemans to break open armor except if all els fails..
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 20, 2011 5:24:40 GMT -5
I disagree. Demolishers should be used against anything and everything that is stupid enough to wander into their 24" "Death Zone". Sooner or later, your opponent's stop wandering into it.
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Post by krasimirova on Sept 20, 2011 6:00:04 GMT -5
Yes but if I have autocannons, to kill the Rhino before I shoot with the Demolisher then I will always do that..
Just because it can kill anything dosn't mean you can't choose your targets..
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