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Post by kobracommander on Sept 29, 2011 9:44:35 GMT -5
is this any good?
HQ
Archon
Ghostplate
venom blade
Blaster
(goes with trueborn)
Elites
Kabalite Trueborn Squad
9 Trueborn
blasters x2
shard carbines x7
Raider
Mandrake Squad
3 Mandrakes
Troops
Warrior Squad I
Kabalite Warriors x10
Splinter Cannon
Raider
Warrior Squad II
same
Warrior Squad III
same
Warrior Squad IV
same
Warrior Squad V
same
Fast Attack
Scourge Squad
Scourges x7
Heat lance x2
Reaver Jet Bikes
10 Reavers
heat lance x3
Heavy Support
Razorwing Jetfighter x2
flickerfields x2
Ravager
x3 disintegraters
flickerfield
Total: 1996
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Post by immortalking on Sept 29, 2011 14:16:38 GMT -5
Ok, first of all, why archon with trueborns?
He is melee monster, why is he with bunch of shooty units?
Second, why do yu have 2 blasters in trueborns when you can have 4? If you shoot at vehicles, your shard carabine shots are wasted, and blasters are not so good aginst infantry.
I reommend taking at least 2 squads of 4 trueborn with 4 blasters in venoms or raiders as the are your best anti tank unit.
Warriors look good, you can take splinter racks on raiders.
Sourges are best in 5 man squads with haywire blasters, not heat lances becouse it means you have to get close to the enemy, and than you can say goodbye to your expensive unit.
Reavers, I prefer small squads of 3-6 with heatlances, they have 3+ cover save on turbo boost and can wrack most vehicles you come across.
You could swap one raider squad with a ravager, I feel you lack anti tank, 15 lances is a bit low for a 2000 DE list.
Also, you lack CC elements, pack few incubi with archon(not more than 6-7, you want them to stay in combet for more than 1 round, more than that will most likely kill anything they charge.) and you are reay to go.
Also, I am not big fan of desintegrators on ravagers, most thing will get their 4+ cover save.
btw. sorry for bad english, I am little drunk, cheers!
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Post by Julian Sharps on Sept 29, 2011 17:39:57 GMT -5
Speaking as someone who has a lot of experience with this sort of build, you did some things right, and other things not so right.
Firstly, I love that Archon build, especially since he's designed to go with Blasterborn. The problem lies with his retinue, not him. Your Blasterborn squad is too big and not equipped properly for its role, which is tank-hunting. I personally would suggest dropping the squad size down to four, and giving every man a blaster. Mount them in a Venom with your Archon, and your opponent can pretty much start kissing his tanks goodbye (I also suggest giving their Venom a second splinter cannon and a night shield, but that's just how I roll, and I've found that they're really effective with this sort of unit.)
I'm not sure about the Mandrakes: they're too small to do much on their own, and they don't really get good until they get a pain token. Drop 'em.
Don't bother with the splinter racks on your Warriors' Raiders; they don't work for the splinter cannon and your Warriors aren't riding with the Duke.
Your Scourge flock is already 9-strong; a tenth one won't break the bank, and it'll unlock two more weapon upgrades. I agree with Immortalking on this one, break them up into two five-man flocks with haywires.
Your Reavers are fine, but you probably don't need ten of them, nine should suffice, but I advise that you give them caltrops; Reavers are best used as a harrassment unit to draw attention and fire away from the bulk of your force.
You could probably stand to drop a Raider squad for another Ravager, but you'll have to drop a Razorwing in order to do so. Still, your Ravagers should be packing lances instead of disintegrators; you'll need the darklights more than the anti-infantry firepower.
Dark Eldar don't have to have a dedicated assault element; some of my best lists had almost nothing when it came to close combat. If you want some more assault units, I suggest getting a Wych team or two and mounting them on Raiders. If you do this, go with the Gauntlets; they mesh well with any combat drug result, and an average of 5 additional attacks per Assault phase is nothing to scoff at, especially for a Troops choice.
With this sort of force, you'll have about 20 darklights (a good rule of thumb is one per 100 points) and a ton of anti-infantry firepower at your disposal. Your Scourge will be useful in harrassing enemy armor, while your Reavers will be zooming around the battlefield, pecking at enemy infantry until they can get into a good position to fire their Heat Lances. Your first target priorities are going to be anything with long range, anything with S 6+ and anything that denies cover saves; if your opponent is playing a mechanized list, take his transports down ASAP; it'll limit his mobility, which you can then use to your advantage. Hope it works out for you!
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Post by immortalking on Sept 30, 2011 13:30:01 GMT -5
Just one question, I have seen people do this but never understood, why do you put archon with trueborn? Without agoniser and shadow field he dies quickly in CC and in shooting he is no better than a trueborn sargent. Besides, it is to easy to force morale checks on him when he is in such fragile unit, and seeing your archon running off the board is something I would not like to see.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Sept 30, 2011 13:36:06 GMT -5
If you're putting the Archon with the trueborn I would give them pistols and CCWs, and load up on more blasters. I don't think I would bother with only 3 mandrakes...I'd use those points for more blasters in the trueborn and warrior squads.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Oct 1, 2011 0:35:45 GMT -5
ImmortalKing, it is quickly becoming clear that the purpose of KobraKommander's Archon build is escaping you. I will illustrate;
Yes, it is true that an Archon is a close combat badass, easily capable of slaying infantry left and right. The problem with a combat badass that can easily slay infantry left and right is that the Dark Eldar have dozens of ways of doing that without resorting to close combat badasses, and a close combat badass Archon is sometimes too good at what he does, and ends up occasionally wiping out an enemy unit entirely on the turn he charges, leaving him vulnerable to enemy fire, which is not good.
The Blaster Archon has a completely different role; his purpose is to destroy tanks, and he is pretty damn good at doing so (believe me, there are quite a few Space Marine player who wish they could give their Captains meltaguns, which is basically what this build is). BS 7 means that he's not likely to miss, which is decidedly a good thing with a gun that shoots once per turn, and if you give him haywire grenades he can even charge the vehicle he shot at and have a good chance at finishing it off.
Most of what one would call the "normal" Archon bodyguard squads won't synergize well with this build; while Wyches, Bloodbrides, Incubi and Harlequins would be helpful in finishing off the guys inside if it were a transport, they aren't much help in actually attacking the vehicle itself. Thus, we turn to Blasterborn. A 4-man Trueborn squad mounted in a Venom makes for a nasty AT unit (especially against transports, the occupants of which the Venom can hose down), and having a fifth blaster in the unit can often mean the difference between a vehicle kill and a vehicle that's had most of its weapons stripped off and is immobilized (in the case of anything with Power of the Machine Spirit, even that plus a few stuns and shakes won't stop it from killing something). Unlike the other bodyguard units, however, Blasterborn are not meant to get into close combat. Their job is to kill tanks, and leave the inconvenience of running around and shanking people to the Archon's lesser minions.
Archons already go toe-to-toe with the best in close combat, and piling on all those upgrades that make him even better at slaughtering the masses just serves to make him more expensive. Giving him a blaster and putting him in a squad of guys with more blasters makes him more useful, since he can provide a secondary role in close combat if he needs to, and his primary role helps fill one that Dark Eldar struggle with due to rubber lance syndrome: anti-tank, which is even more important in 5th edition where the most competitive builds are often mechanized or have a lot of vehicles.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Oct 1, 2011 2:25:17 GMT -5
Keeping him cheap and using him to shoot at stuff is fine I guess...
but I would always take an agoniser over a poisoned blade if I had the points, my archon usually goes for the toughest units with his cadre of Incubi, sure they slaughter wholesale and there is a risk of overkill...but their job is to hamstring my opponent's most powerful unit...and the archon will often survive a round of shooting, even if all of the incubi don't.(Leaving him to hook up with the wyches or warriors who are coming in behind him.)
That's the way I likes em...and I don't care for dinky trueborn squads in venoms, once the transport is gone the whole squad could be easily sent packing with one spray from a heavy bolter...plus each casualty dramatically decreases the effectiveness of the squad...now everything the DE have is pretty fragile, but 4 guys is a little too soft for my taste, and you can bet they are going to be a high priority target...espically if you're only bringing one unit of them.
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Post by krasimirova on Oct 1, 2011 3:35:13 GMT -5
Personally i love playing against DE Venom spam, simply because as Ymmot says, they are so easy to kill.. Sure they have a high damage output, but once even my weakest weapons starts shooting at their transports or their squad (Multilaser) they crumble..
But then again, Venom spam is one of the hardest lists out there and against anything but mech guard they are really brutal..
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Post by immortalking on Oct 1, 2011 15:29:35 GMT -5
Julian Sharps, I must admit, I am not experienced DE player, I am more into eldar, but I still don't understand why is he any better than trueborn sarge who can also take blast pistol(forgot the name, and I am on a trip so I don't have codex here). Sure, he's BS 7 compared to 4, but would you pay hunderd points more just for that? Besides, trueborn are already a fire maget on their own, why increasing that by adding archon? If he is using blast pistol, he needs to be within 12 inches of the target vehicle, which means he'll be both in rapid fire and charge range, and that means, next turn he is dead. I know I would make sure of that. 2 easy kill points in one? Yes please!
And considering him wipeing out a squad in on charge, that's why you never take full squad of wathever with him, or if you do, multi assault is always an option.
For his cost in trueborn squad I could almost get another ravager!
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Post by kobracommander on Oct 3, 2011 5:32:49 GMT -5
The main reason I took the archon like that, is because if I had my choice...I wouldn't take one. With this particular build, I don't really need any CC support, as the whole idea is to avoid it. So I needed an archon that was cheap, and would do something other than be a CC monster...hense the blaster. He's cheap, because I don't want to waste any points on him, as he is NOT a focal point of the list....in this way, the list is supposed to work a lot like a much faster mech guard list.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Oct 3, 2011 10:50:26 GMT -5
So drop the ghostplate and venom blade, the mandrakes, and the shard carbines. Use those points to fill up on blasters in your warrior and trueborn squads.
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