What are some alright CSM units?

[missilemaster]

My brother is working on getting an army together, and has decided on Chaos. He has a terminator lord, some random chaos marines, and I'll give him some of my old CSMs to bulk up his force, but what would be a good next step from there? Defilers, vindicators, predators? Berzerkers or daemons, raptors or bikes? Havocs or terminators? He also kind of wants to get a sorceror to replace his terminator lord because he likes their models more.

As far as fluff and models is concerned, he mostly likes Khorne stuff, thinks Tzeentch is alright and dislikes Slaanesh and Nurgle, but he thinks plague marines are acceptable. I heard people like running Khorne/Nurgle too, but I've been out of the loop so I don't know for sure.

Some pointers would be cool, and maybe some rough ideas for what armies could look like at 500, 750 and 1000 points. Like, "1 Terminator lord and 3 ten-man CSM squads" or something like that, nothing too specific on gear just roughly what it could look like and which units don't do much of anything.

[emptyhat]

Is he looking for stuff that is fun to paint or fun to play? Maybe some Obliterators would be good. I've only used a winged Daemon Prince as my H.Q., since my lord is in pieces right now, and only for the one game I played but he was something of a beast, Plague Marines seem quite strong as well and if he wants a small elite force then the points cost of these choices will push it in that direction.

[missilemaster]

I assume he would want both fun to play and fun to paint, he's a little afraid of vehicles because he's never painted anything big before. If vehicles aren't a necessity, that's fine too. Obliterators could be an option, I should ask him what he thinks about them.

[emptyhat]

Painting Rhinos can be quite forgiving and they would be pretty good for mobilising his troop choices (I've been too lazy to sort out my own two CSM rhinos so I don't speak from experience) as you'd expect from any army in 5th Ed. Oblits have always struck me as fun because the models look good and you get to morph the weapons around.

[WestRider]

Oblits are about the best Unit CSM have.

In other slots:
- HQ: Daemon Prince is your best bet. Chaos Lords generally suck, Sorcerers can be OK.
- Elites: Either Chosen with lots of Meltas and probably a Rhino or "Termicide" Squads: 3 Terminators, 3 Combi-Meltas, no other upgrades. Deep Strike next to something that you need to die, and make the trade. Possessed look awesome, but fall short on the Table, while Dreads always go crazy in the worst possible way.
- Troops: Basic CSM Squads or Plague Marines are the most solid. Meltas and Rhinos. Berzerkers would be good if they could get a decent delivery system, but as is they tend to get shot to bits before coming anywhere near their target. Stay away from Noise Marines or Thousand Sons unless you really know what you're doing
- Fast Attack: Don't bother. They're not exactly bad, but everything in here is way overcosted, and Chaos is tight for Points anyhow. Minimum-size Raptors or Bikes with dual Meltaguns are probably the least bad options. Even though they kind of suck, I will mention that a max-sized Squad of Raptors is a lot of fun. Chaos Spawn are generally considered the worst Unit in the Game.
- Heavy Support: As mentioned, Oblits are king here. Havocs and Predators are decent, but overcosted. Defilers have coolness factor, but are trying to do both Shooting and Combat, cost too much to just do one of them, and can't really do both well. Land Raiders really suffer from only being Godhammer Pattern and not having Power of the Machine Spirit, while Vindicators die way too fast.
- Summoned Daemons: Can be useful, but probably not a starter Unit. As a Khorne Player, though, he should be happy to hear that they do work best in Units of 8

- A note on Rhinos: Chaos Rhinos should always have an extra Weapon purchased if you can manage it. It's one of the few things that really makes them better than Imperials. Combi-Melta if you're going to get up close, Havoc Launcher for a Squad that plans to hang back.

That's the five minute version. I'll maybe run up some sample Lists if I get the time later, or if you could get a couple from your buddy, we could help optimize them.

[missilemaster]

This is all good, I will explain it to him later. Right now, between us, we might possibly have 40-50ish standard chaos marines in addition to some raptors of his and his termie lord, so we're really just looking to see what he needs for specialist units. A Daemon Prince, a pair of Rhinos and some Obliterators sounds managable.

[Peter Cooman]

hey missilemaster

i can only second everything westrider says.

Csm squads with melta and rhino are your best bet for small point games like you want. 5 plagues with 2 plasma is also an affordable unit that can survive very long.

Only thing i wanna add is that oblits are a tad too costly for me in low point games, and they are too easily instagibbed by a battlecannon shell or if you fail your save by a missile launcher. You can always use one and deep strike it followed by a twin linked melta shot but thats not so cost effective. I personally take 6 havocs with 3 missile launchers for the same cost as 2 oblits.

Raptors are good at what they do, but in small point games i feel there is limited use for them, as you regular troops all hit like assault marines or better. So i belive you better invest in another thing for more flexibility.