Anti SM Help needed

[tuditud19]

I realise SM shouldnt be our toughest problem right now, but I am simply having so much trouble against those damn assault marines that get to me so fast. I imagine one solution would be to bring more guardsmen. I tried cavalry, but it didnt work that well for me. This happened to me after I annihilated a not really newcomer eldar guy, losing some 11 veterans while wiping them out. Crushing victory for the Emperor!

[KRIEGEIRK]

Plasma. Lots and lots of Plasma weapons. Executioner with Plasma sponsons, while expensive can generally wipe out a whole squad in one shooting phase.

[destroyerlord]

make them take so many saves that there is no possible way of passing them. Punisher tanks are an interesting option.

Plasma is expensive and you could lose your guys to your own fire. The best way I have seen for dealing with things that are hard like that is to totally overwhelm them with low quality shots! My Ork shoota boys do so much damage against marines because of the number of shots.

[treadiculous]

I echo volume of fire over quality of fire..

Punisher is not (unfortunatly) a good example of this due to its high cost.

What sort of list are you fielding?... the more you can tell us the better we are able to advise.

Also, what's your local gaming environment like eg: races, army styles, terrain, etc

[tuditud19]

I am currently facing eldar and SM. I had no problems against the eldar, but I find it rather tough to beat the marines. Considering we are a pretty new community we're just starting on making terrain and such. He takes Tacticals with LC and a flamer, splits them in 2 combat squads. The LC for busting my tanks and the flamer guys for getting close to me. I find it kinda hard to kill the LC CS that stays in the back. Also he's Assault marines get to my guys pretty fast, over terrain and such, and kill my guardsman. He's droppod dread is also kinda annoying, since last game it dropped behind my russ, inches away from my hombe objective. That was some lousy positioning on me. I run a platoon ( some HWS and 30-40 guardsmen) and 2 veteran squads usually in chimera. I take a sentinel for keeping his guys in combat for as long as possible, and then the usual LRBT. Im trying out new variants of the LR currently.

[DadCRO]

Battle cannons kill marines very fast.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

Send up a squad to intercept the marines, try to make sure they all die during his assault phase, then shoot the marines with a battle cannon. Repeat as necessary, your results may vary.

[krasimirova]

Punisher is a worthless tank.. Don't even bother listening to the senseless people who tell you otherwise.. Hiting on 4's, wounding on 3's, allowing 3+ armor save and a 4+ FNP save simply is the most worthless piece of advice anybody could give you..

Leman Russ main battle tanks at range.. Or executioners/demolisher work very well too, but needs to be closer..

Plasma veterans or CCS mid range.. (And close up, which is kinda too late)

If you have a problem with them getting to your lines quickly, then you will need to spread out sacrificial units of cheap infantry infront of your killers so as to deny juice assault options.. Don't assault with these squads then NEED to be assaulted, because they will fail their Ld and either be destroyed or fall back, this will open them up for shooting from your killers..

Again, and I can not stress this enough, do not use the punisher, some people are blinded by the fact that it says "Heavy 20" in our codex.. Do the math on the scenario i mentioned above, and you will see why..

Hope it helps..

Kras...

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

The sacrifical squad is one of my favorite kinds of squads.

[krasimirova]

Ymmot: As the say.. There is no I in team.. But there is a team in meat shield..

[tuditud19]

I realised the punisher is kinda worthless, since half those shots are going to miss and allow armor saves anyway. It's funny how much it was praised in WD when the guard dex came out. So more LRBT (you can never have too many tanks IMO). Dead guardsman will be it. I loved how my armoured sentinel kept some AM in CC for 2 full turns last game. I'm also having problems thinking what to keep in reserve. I kept my RR as well as my LRE and veterans in reserve, all coming up in turn 4 when it was kinda late. My LRBT was busted, a blob annihilated. What do you guys keep in reserve ?

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

If he has a lot of assault troops that are closing fast? I wouldn't put anything in reserve, I'd use all my available firepower to soften up the enemy...unless he was doing a lot of deep striking on turn one and could assault when he arrived somehow, which is probably possible with some combination in some SM list...but against the usual assault marines coming to kick your teeth in, I would just gunline it up and blast them into tiny bits. Excluding things like stormtroopers, scout sentinels, and valkyries. Those work best when they use their special deployment options.

[destroyerlord]

Vanguard can assault the turn they arrive. The poo is the descent of Angels BA special which allows the scatter to be reduced to just d6". This allows him to drop within rapid range and then assault the next turn with no chance of you getting away.

I would suggest that as with Orks you deploy forward and then perform a fighting retreat so that the gap between you and your opponent remains and you can keep firing at him before he gets to you which should allow you to do a lot of damage by turn 2 and then turn 3 his assault units should either be toasted or reduced to ineffective!

[krasimirova]

Deploy at your weapons max range, he will come close to you.. Place the sacrificial units closer, but place your actual killers as fare away as possible.. There isn't like in real life areas that you can retreat to sadly.. + The jump marines are faster than we are.. Better to stand and shoot = bringing your heavy weaponry into play.. In general the heavy weapons you want will have a 48" range which is the average board size..

[destroyerlord]

I play a heavy LRBT list so can move and still shoot a lot of my stuff. As long as there is 19" between you and his assault units then you should be able to deal with them.

You just need to make sure that you can negate his cover by placing units with LOS around cover!

[The Hawk!]

Another way to counter them is the Varient of the Hellhound that uses a Chem Cannon. It always wounds on a 2+ (Against enemies with a T value) and is AP3. It makes short work of Marines and isn't too expensive either. The good old Battle Tank is also a good choice. A Vanilla russ at 150 Points if I remember correctly, Drops a pie plate of Str 8, AP 3 Goodness ontop of your enemies Shiny Marines. Its pretty easy, You just have to pack enough AP3 or lower into you shooty stuff Good Luck!

Dave

[krasimirova]

Problem with the Banewolf is that it is "only" AP3 so they still get FNP..

And that you need to be dangerously close to the assault marines to use it..:/

[tuditud19]

This weekend I'm trying a DKoK Armoured Company list with normal cadians to see if it's worth buying some Kriegsmen ( I can't really afford an entire army of them, but I'd like to have some units and play with their rules from time to time). Any tips or so? I didn't want to make another thread.

[krasimirova]

Is it armoured company or is it the DKoK "codex" you are planing on using..?

They work very different..

[tuditud19]

The Armoured Battlegroup Rules from IA8. Excuse my mistake, I was kinda tired.

[tuditud19]

I didn't want to make a new thread for this question, since it may be quite silly. Can IC's leave units while that are falling back? From what I understand the answer is no.