Pyrotechnics
Captain
Let the promethium burn it to a cinder!
Posts: 238
|
Post by Pyrotechnics on Mar 25, 2012 4:13:03 GMT -5
Assuming you could only take one of these in a 1k point annihilaton match, which would you pick? I realise that it may depend on what the rest of the army is, but just on this information, which would you pick? I'm also aware that the points aren't the same, but that doesn't matter.
Either:
Executioner with Plasma Sponsons + Lascannon
or
Veterans with Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Carapace and a Chimera.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Hawk! on Mar 25, 2012 4:23:41 GMT -5
I'd take the Executioner..... It means you don't use very useful plasma gunners to 'Gets Hot'. Also.... AV 14 is harder to kill than a 4+ save  |
|
|
|
Post by Gerner on Mar 25, 2012 4:37:14 GMT -5
Vets every day.  |
|
|
|
Post by Deathkorpsman on Mar 25, 2012 8:02:20 GMT -5
For a 1k points game I'd take the vets. They are cheaper, which is great at 1k points, are more reliable at hitting their target, which is also good, and the whole selection can fire at two targets rather than one (the squad at one target, the Chimera at another).
In a vacuum, I wouldn't point my finger at one choice always being better than the other, but in a 1k points game the vets will always be strong while the Executioner will be great until you go up against something that can deal with AV14 or get around the sides/into melee. Eldar especially and a few other armies somewhat won't have a ton of trouble cracking open a Russ especially if that many points are tied into it.
For survivability and price, I think the vets win. Firepower-wise they are probably a wash. Avoiding the 'all-in-one-basket' problem also sides towards the vets.
Hope that helps.
|
|
|
|
Post by Empirespy on Mar 25, 2012 8:58:21 GMT -5
I'd have to say the executioner would be better, as it packs plasma cannons, so the BS thing isn't so much of a problem. And it's not that much more expensive there's only 35pts in it. The AV 14 would be a bit of a bother for most armies at 1000pts, and it has something that can deal with high armour values. So it's better at taking out infantry, heavy infantry and all vehicles than the vets, at around the same range. I think that the main reason the vets would be better is the fact that it can hold objectives, whereas the Executioner can't. It can be a bummer if it gets blown up, but if you think about it, a large blast weapon (Hammerhead railgun, battle cannon etc.) can quite effectively remove a vet squad, and if they aren't wiped out, they may flee, effectively removing them from the game. Also, the vets could easily be tied up in combat, but you need s5 plus to do anything in combat to the executioner.
Hope this helps,
-Empirespy
|
|
|
|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Mar 28, 2012 6:47:40 GMT -5
At 1000 points? Leman Russ Demolisher. It's a better general-purpose AP2 and tank-busting platform.
|
|
|
|
Post by Empirespy on Mar 28, 2012 11:38:12 GMT -5
That is true, but not one of the options.
The executioner plasma cannon is better than the demolisher cannon, statistically though, as it's area is roughly 1.5"2 larger.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Mar 28, 2012 12:35:49 GMT -5
Not if you don't take into account it's inability to defeat vehicles.
|
|
|
|
Post by Empirespy on Mar 28, 2012 14:20:30 GMT -5
And the demolisher has 1 hole, if that goes off the vehicle, then it too is incapable. with the three holes from the executioner, it makes it unlikely to scater off with all of the templates, meaning that it is more effecient at taking out transports, with AV 10 to 12. Also, the Demolisher range is shorter.
|
|
|
|
Post by hektorreborn on Mar 28, 2012 15:23:28 GMT -5
demolisher all the way.... S 10, plus it should be moving forward so you dont have to sink points into sponsons or that hull lascannon. Executioner over the vets with plasma tho, templates always win with bs 3.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Mar 28, 2012 17:48:14 GMT -5
And the demolisher has 1 hole, if that goes off the vehicle, then it too is incapable. with the three holes from the executioner, it makes it unlikely to scater off with all of the templates, meaning that it is more effecient at taking out transports, with AV 10 to 12. Also, the Demolisher range is shorter. Taking out AV 12 with a executioner? Good luck with that. Lol. |
|
|
|
Post by DadCRO on Mar 28, 2012 20:21:24 GMT -5
It's not impossible.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deathkorpsman on Mar 28, 2012 20:24:42 GMT -5
It isn't even unlikely. 5 shots @ S7 needs 5's to glance AV12. Like using an autocannon heavy weapon team to do the same thing except your misses might still hit something else worth killing.
I'm starting to come around on using the Executioner in a smaller game, though I'm still leaning towards the vets in a balanced list because they can do things an Executioner just can't. Examples being holding objectives and hiding out of LOS.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Mar 29, 2012 0:50:45 GMT -5
So you're going to drop one quarter of your army into something that can't even scratch AV13.
|
|
|
|
Post by krasimirova on Mar 29, 2012 4:15:14 GMT -5
Haha! Why are we even talking about using the Executioner against Armor..? Using it against armor is like using a chainsaw to hammer fence poles.. It will happen at some point, but you are doing it wrong..
It would be just as silly as measuring Meltaguns by their (in)ability to tackle large blocks of cheap infantry..
It is all a question of synergi.. If your entire list is optimized to take out AV10 - 12 with lascannons and missile launchers from here to Terra, then the executioner is a perfect unit to include, because it excels at dumping templates on clumped up de-meched infantry, and with sponsons you'll have 5 tries to hit the clumbed up infanty in question..
And at 1000 points it is 100% viable to actually make a army that can tackle transports, we play IG!
But enough rage against silly argumentation..
To Topic Holder:
I'd choose the veteran squad, they are scoring, have a large damage output and can have jack of all trades role.. (No dedicated anti-tank here either, but as you said, we don't know the rest of your list and it should include some kind of dedicated anti tank) the unit, containing a chimera will also be mobile and equipped with a multi laser and a heavy flamer it can tackle most units your opponent throws at you..
IF on the other hand your list contains a infantry gunline with loads of high S heavy weapons, then i'd choose the Executioner with sponsons and a heavy bolter.. (Drop that lascannon, they don't belong on most Lemans)..
Hope it helps in your game, and looking forward to hearing the results..
Kras..
|
|
|
|
Post by Aeon on Mar 29, 2012 12:36:48 GMT -5
With the might of the Imperial Guard, NOTHING is impossible. Except wouding T7 with our basic rifles. Aside from that! ok yea lots of things are impossible with Guard equipment  Anyway. In 1000K I would take plasma vets with 3 plasma guns, a plasma pistol, carapace, and a chimera. It's more mobile than the tank (doesn't have lumbering behemoth) and once the Chimera is gone, they can get out (assuming the Chi isn't annihlated and they all happen to take wounds and they all happen to fail their armour saves...Emperor forbid that ever happens). Also, vets can climb up into buildings and do some CQB (yes i've done it, it's possible to storm into a building, get a good round of shooting and wipe out most medium infantry and some small MEQ squads). Plasma vets all the way. Only time I would run executioner is 2K and above, especially in apocalypse with lots of MEQs running around, you're gonna need all those AP2 blast templates. They are especially good against Chaos who typically will have more Marines in their army than regular SM Also let's compare the shots here. Neither is better than the other, however, one excels at close range Executioner w/ plasma sponsons and heavy bolter front: 5 s7 small plates, 3 s5 shots Veteran squad w/ gear mentioned above long range: 3 s7 shots hitting on a 3+, 6 lasguns, 3 multilaser shots, 3 heavy bolter shots short range: 7 s7 shots, 12 lasguns shots, 3 multilaser shots, 3 heavy bolter shots At short range, they're a win. It's especially nice if you put a heavy flamer on the chimera, and douse whatever building you're breaching into with some nice, piping hot holy promethium first. Templates tend to get alot more wounds than a machine gun can |
|
|
|
Post by krasimirova on Mar 30, 2012 2:37:26 GMT -5
Templates tend to get alot more wounds Not a 100% fair way to compare the Executioner, yes if each template only hits 1 guy, then there is "only" 5 chances to wound.. But you could be lucky and land each blast marker on 4 guys.. |
|
|
|
Post by DadCRO on Mar 30, 2012 11:01:51 GMT -5
I run both of them at 1500.
|
|
|
|
Post by dangerrod on Mar 30, 2012 18:56:08 GMT -5
I run both of them at 1500. Same here, works very well Although the executioner can be a bullet magnet  Danger Rod |
|
|
|
Post by WestRider on Mar 30, 2012 20:44:58 GMT -5
I vote for the Executioner, just on grounds of awesomeness. The Vets will probably be more effective, for all the various reasons stated above, but the Executioner scores massive awesomeness points.
|
|
|
|
Post by DadCRO on Mar 30, 2012 21:55:55 GMT -5
True.
|
|
|
|
Post by krasimirova on Mar 31, 2012 4:27:09 GMT -5
Ahh awesome sauce.. The nectar of my life..
|
|
|
|
Post by DadCRO on Mar 31, 2012 10:14:45 GMT -5
I like combining stuff, so my "awesome sauce" is actually "Cool bean sauce", and I eat it for breakfast.
|
|
