Dirty "tricks" by the Imperial Guard

[Pax Urbis Pax Imperi]

There is more to playing Imperial Guard than lining up across from your opponent in a gun-line and just shooting your opponent. A canny general should be aware of the strengths of the build that was chosen, and use tactics appropriately. That being said, here are some tricks and tactics that may help. Most you may already be aware of, some you may not be. Hopefully we can all benefit from these "tricks".



- "Alpha Strike" -

• A Valkyrie or Vendetta
  
• A Veteran Infantry Squad, with x3 Melta. May also use the Demolitions Doctrine for added effect.
  

An Alpha Strike is very easy to perform, but depending on the luck of the dice, hard to perform well. This "trick" utilizes the speed and scout ability of the Valkyrie/Vendetta, and the firepower of a Veteran Infantry Squad.

- Before the game begins, use the Valkyrie/Vendetta's scout move to forward flat out to be within 12" of your target, usually a tank.
- Turn one, have the Vets get out and move forward up to 8" (2" deployment + 6" move), and move your Valkyrie/Vendetta back, moving flat out as needed, or you could train your weapons on another target. Hopefully, the Vets will melta the tank and destroy it!
- If not, follow up with an assault move and use the meltabombs the Vets now have with Demo Doctrine and kill it in Assault phase.

Risks: Your opponent seizes the initiative, catching you and your unit out in the open, and vulnerable. Even if you do destroy the tank, chances are the Vets will be destroyed to your opponents shooting or assaulting. Do not expect this unit to live more than one or two turns. The flat out scout move should protect from most shooting, but watch out for assaulting units. Your Vets could miss, or not destroy the target. This is heavily dependent on going first, before your opponent can react.

Works best with more than one Valkyrie/Vendetta + x3 Melta vets for maximum firepower.
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- "Spotter Rounds" -

• Griffon
  
• x2 Colossus
  

This Ordnance Battery works well with one another, as both Artillery types are indirect fire only, Strength 6, and at least while on the table, roughly the same range. This will take advantage of the Griffons Accurate Bombardment rule, and the Ordnance Bombardment rules from the main rulebook.

- Deploy this battery in a position where it will hit the most units on the table, and still be either out of line of sight of other shooting units, or in a corner to take advantage of its superior range.
- If in a corner, deploy the tanks in a triangle formation, with the griffon at the tip and slightly forward , or slightly ahead of the Colossus when in a gun-line formation. The reason for this is so that when the battery fires, the griffon will fire first, being "closer" to your target.
- Roll scatter as normal, scattering 2d6 as rolled. If you are not satisfied with the results, re-roll the scatter again and take the final result.
- The Colossus now fire, and place their templates around where the Griffon's shot landed, using the Ordnance Barrage rules.
- If your unit comes under fire, put as many results on the Griffon as possible, using it as "ablative" wounds for your main threat: the Colossus battery.

Risks: The scatter could still miss, even with the potential re-roll with the Griffon. It could hit your own troops. Your scatter with the Colossus could also miss, but at least it is tethered to the Griffon's shot. While your opponent will not be able to get a cover save from the Colossus, they can take one against the Griffon. You are now subject to the Squadron Rules, and have a larger footprint on the board, making cover saves difficult. Shots are indirect fire, and have a minimum range. Its a HUGE bullet magnet.

Works best behind cover, and out of sight. May also use with a Basilisk Battery, but cannot use with a Medusa (all shots scatter as its not ordnance barrage, or a Manticore, as it cannot squadron up.)
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"Lessen Resolve"

• a Psyker Battle Squad, usually in a Chimera
  
• See below
  

Perhaps no other unit in the Imperial Guard Codex is more reviled or hated as the Psyker Battle Squad. It is incredibly useful, either as a cheap artillery with no minimum range, or for their most famous power: Lessen Resolve.

Lessen Resolve is a psychic power that automatically lowers the leadership of the unit targeted by the number of psykers in the squad, down to 2. It is a very effective way to get a unit to run away if enough wounds has been caused, or to be pinned when shot with a pinning weapon. As such, there are several different "tactics" that can be employed in conjunction with this power.

"Run home to Momma!

• A Pskyer Battle Squad
  
• Any shooting unit in your army
  

- This is extremely simple. Cause enough wounds to a unit to force a leadership test, use Lessen Resolve, and make that unit run away and off the board when it fails its LD test.
- If you have a fast unit, such as a Valkyrie/Vendetta, or a member of the Hellhound Tank family, you can escort the unit off the board by being within 6" of the unit running.

Risks: Low. Defeated with Stubborn or Fearless units. Psykers may fail the LD 9 test, or have a Perils of the Warp test and get shot by their Overseer. The unit in question may roll two 1's and stick. Most Space Marines will be able to rally right away and even return to the fight.

Best used in a unit of 6 and up. Need a fast unit for escort duty

"Auto-pin"

• A Pskyer Battle Squad
  
• Ratling Snipers, Sniper Guns, or Ordnance Barrage
  

- Again, relatively simple and straight forward. Use the PSB first[/i], and use the Lessen Resolve power to lower the targeted unit's leadership. Hit the unit with Sniper Weapons, or Ordnance Barrage (i.e. weapons that cause pinning tests) and pin that unit for a turn.

Risks: Low. Defeated with Stubborn or Fearless units. Psykers may fail the LD 9 test, or have a Perils of the Warp test and get shot by their Overseer. The unit in question may roll two 1's and not be pinned. IG has an order to get the unit Back in the Fight.

Best used in a unit of 6 and up.

While the Lessen Resolve is most often used during the Shooting phase, it lasts your ENTIRE turn, not just until the end of the shooting phase. That means, you can use it during your assaulting as well!

"Charge!"

• A Psyker Battle Squad
  
• Any unit that will be assaulting the unit affected with Lessen Resolve, such as a Blob Squad, Ogryns,Rough Riders on their first charge, or even the Psyker Battle Squad themselves.
  

- Use the PSB on a squad, and Lessen Resolve. This lasts your whole turn.
- In the Assault phase, attack the unit you have Lessen Resolve on. If you win combat, your opponent has to roll a LD test to see if he sticks around. Since his LD is now down to possibly 2, we will lose combat and be swept. If he escapes, now he is also running.
- If another unit is nearby to make your opponent continue to flee, now is the perfect time to use Lessen Resolve and assault again. A fleeing unit that is assaulted has to make a LD test, and since it is now down to 2 for this turn, he will fail and be automatically destroyed! Works for that turn only.

Risks: Extremely High. Defeated with Stubborn or Fearless units. Psykers may fail the LD 9 test, or have a Perils of the Warp test and get shot by their Overseer. The unit in question may roll two 1's and stick. More importantly, you more often than not will fail combat.

Best used in conjunction with Col. Straken, or Ogryns. With their high strength, chances are good that you may cause the most wounds. A lowly PSB might also win, as they have close combat weapons and pistols for three attacks on the charge (a full squad of 9 PSB have 31 attacks on the charge, nothing to sneeze at!) Even with a low WS, you might cause enough wounds to win.

Best used in a unit of 6 and up, an probably Ogryns.
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"Grav-chute Insertion"

• A Valkyrie or Vendetta
  
• Stormtroopers with the Airborne Doctrine
  
• a Unit of Veteran Infantry Squad
  

A Valkyrie and Vendetta have a special ability to move flat out to provide it with a cover save. While it is moving flat out, its occupants may have the option of jumping out anywhere along its path, using 'grav-chute insertion'. This utilizes the deep-strike rules, and everyone must take a dangerous terrain test to survive IF you should scatter. This is important, because if you don't scatter, you are fine.

- Use the Valkyrie or Vendetta and hold it back, and wait for your opponents to rush forward, over extending their lines. When they are close enough, move flat out over them, and using Grav-chute Insertion rules, drop in behind them.
- Stormtroopers may re-roll the Scatter die, if they take the Airborne Doctrine, chosen before the game starts. This means they are more effective when jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.

Risks: EXTREMELY HIGH. This is not without its risks. Scatter, and you could lose some troops. You can't assault when you deep strike, but you can shoot or run at least.

Best used with Stormtroopers, as they have a built in way to make sure it works correctly. Its advantage is that it has the element of surprise, as no one will expect you to even try this hair-brain scheme.
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These are just some tricks and tactics that a smart commander can employ in our next battle. Do you have a trick you like to use? Post it here!

[Wraelis]

I'm really liking the Spotter one with the artillery. Never even crossed my mind and that's right up my alley. All of it was pretty nifty though, even if some aren't quite things that I'll try, I definitely like all these random tactics. They all sound pretty fun

[Empirespy]

These are quite cool, with the charge one though you won't be able to charge again with a different unit, as you have to move everyone into combat first then do all the combats, then see the results.

[Rolling Thunder]

Your first trick has already been outlined in more detail here: www.commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Tactics&action=display&thread=8655&page=1 . Grav chute insertion isn't a "trick" - indeed, none of these are "tricks" particularly, they're just extremely logical, sensible ways to use units.

[Pax Urbis Pax Imperi]

Agreed, and you have explained it much better that I could (actually, a really brilliant analysis) of the use of a Valkyrie and Vets.

I would prefer the term "tactics" to tricks, but sometimes, it is best to lay out the options.

Speaking of, I'll be employing the "Spotter Rounds" tactic at a tournament next month, I'll report the success or failure and the enemies reaction to such a unit.

[Rolling Thunder]

Ace! Look forward to finding out how it works.

You know, this has given me an idea. We need a unit-by-unit list of common tactics and common tactical axioms. I'm going to co-ordinate with you and Reds about this.

[Pax Urbis Pax Imperi]

Definitely! I look forward to it. I'm a mod on Boot Camp, so I think some cross ideas would be an excellent.

Updated "Alpha Strike" and "Charge!": You have to be 12" or more away when you scout move, and you can't charge a fleeing unit until the next turn as you have to declare charges at the beginning of your turn.

Also, just thought of another one...

"Flame On!"

• A Hellhound with multi-melta.
  
• A Hellhound with multi-melta.

A Hellhound's Inferno cannon ignores cover, a multi-melta kills most armor effectively. Run these two tanks together, but don't squadron them! Make sure your opponent knows they are not a squadron, to avoid conflicts later. This idea is a way to open up that hard candy shell of a transport, then flame the contents until they are crispy.

- Deploy your two but separate Hell Hounds together, as if they were a squadron.
- Try to treat them as such: moving, shooting, etc.
- Target one Hellhound's multi-melta on a transport, and kill it.
- The occupants are now in a crater, all bunched up for a hot flaming template of death that ignores the cover they are huddled in.

Risks: Low to medium. This has all of the advantages of a squadron and none of the draw backs (shooting at same target, if one is destroyed the other doesn't have to take the extra damage, etc.) You are not tied to to the other tank, if you need to separate you can. If you want to shoot/flame another target, you can. You are not destroyed if you immobilize yourself. But if you miss with the multi-melta, you can't flame either. You can be another fast unit for escort duty. You are armor 12 on the sides, so each can provide cover to each other if needed.

Works best in pairs, and with the same kinds of tanks: Hounds with Hounds, Dogs with Dogs, Wolves with Wolves. Just like special weapons, it does not pay to mix and match, and redundancy is the key.

[diezel]

May 8, 2012 18:22:34 GMT -5 Pax Urbis Pax Imperi said:

Definitely! I look forward to it. I'm a mod on Boot Camp, so I think some cross ideas would be an excellent.

Updated "Alpha Strike" and "Charge!": You have to be 12" or more away when you scout move, and you can't charge a fleeing unit until the next turn as you have to declare charges at the beginning of your turn.

Also, just thought of another one...

"Flame On!"

• A Hellhound with multi-melta.
  
• A Hellhound with multi-melta.

A Hellhound's Inferno cannon ignores cover, a multi-melta kills most armor effectively. Run these two tanks together, but don't squadron them! Make sure your opponent knows they are not a squadron, to avoid conflicts later. This idea is a way to open up that hard candy shell of a transport, then flame the contents until they are crispy.

- Deploy your two but separate Hell Hounds together, as if they were a squadron.
- Try to treat them as such: moving, shooting, etc.
- Target one Hellhound's multi-melta on a transport, and kill it.
- The occupants are now in a crater, all bunched up for a hot flaming template of death that ignores the cover they are huddled in.

Risks: Low to medium. This has all of the advantages of a squadron and none of the draw backs (shooting at same target, if one is destroyed the other doesn't have to take the extra damage, etc.) You are not tied to to the other tank, if you need to separate you can. If you want to shoot/flame another target, you can. You are not destroyed if you immobilize yourself. But if you miss with the multi-melta, you can't flame either. You can be another fast unit for escort duty. You are armor 12 on the sides, so each can provide cover to each other if needed.

Works best in pairs, and with the same kinds of tanks: Hounds with Hounds, Dogs with Dogs, Wolves with Wolves. Just like special weapons, it does not pay to mix and match, and redundancy is the key.

I usually run a HH with MM but i find myself wishing i had a HF on there almost every time :/

[DadCRO]

You can't scout within 12" of an enemy.

EDIT: Oops. You fixed that.

[Jackal-0311]

This thread is sweeeeeeeeeeeet!

[Trickstick]

I really hate the spotter round tactic, it is just a terrible idea. The mismatch of range brackets, along with the different strength and AP values just means that it is not worth it. The secondary shots are not that much more accurate anyway, as you would need a favourable scatter or a hit to get the result you wanted anyway. Add in wound allocation and it really isn't worth the price tag of the griffon. You would be better using the points to get more guns, increasing your chances to hit through weight of fire.

Sorry, I just hate this tactic. Please tell me if it works when you try it, would love to be proved wrong. I'm pretty much against any weapon mixing at all though, I would rather have distinct units of mass weaponry.

All of the others are very nice Guard tactics though. I would try the sweeping advance one but I never really win combats, I just lose them for three turns until the enemy are all dead and then move on. Good old commissars...

[krasimirova]

The "Spotter round" tactic, is flawed for the same reasons you mention trick..

At first glance it seems good, but you still need to roll a hit with the "Second round" to get it where you want it, and since you have to place the first template so it covers as many models as possible, it will be hard getting "a good scatter" on the second one..

Don't know if it is a Tactic, but deploying Lemans behind Chimeras will grant them a cover save, and you'd still be able to fire above the chimera (not sponsons or hull mount thou) This is what i normally see people using a-hole dreads do..

[Pax Urbis Pax Imperi]

I appreciate opposing viewpoints, so that the fact that you don't like the "Spotter Round" tactic is completely cool. I'd rather these be talked out and discussed and analyzed than ignored.

But allow me to rebuttal, Trick.

Point One: Range - The different range increments are not that much of a factor, and here is why: The max range of of the Colossus is 240", which covers the entire table (minus the 24" minimum range, of course), while the Griffon is only 48". This will cover much of the board as well, and has a minimum range of 12". This still allows for a two feet to four feet range of shots. Turn one, two, and even three there will still be shots to take, providing your squadron is still alive!

Point Two: Different in Strength and AP - Both the Griffon and the Colossus are S6 guns, so they wound the same. I will grant you the AP, as the Griffon will allow for an save, both cover and armor. The Colossus AP, however, will kill marines, which in my opinion negates the higher AP of the griffon.

Point Three: The Scatter - It is true that the scatter may miss, and this is true of any Russ or Artillery weapon. But you do get to re-roll that first scatter, and with any game of chance with dice, luck may be with you. The same goes for the second and third shots. Of course you may miss! Dice like to mess with our heads. But if you hit, you can place the second shot either on the first template, or touching any part of it. This will allow for placing the template over the most models, should you get a less than optimal first scatter. The same goes for the third shot. Should you hit, you can place the third shot on ANY part of the first two templates, allowing you to "walk" the shot in, in case your scatter was really out there, but close enough for something to hit.

Krasimirova, its dirty and I like it!

[WestRider]

Point 1: Somewhat valid. But not being able to deal with targets closer than 24" is still a big problem. Most Armies in 40K like to close within that Range anyhow.

Point 2: The Griffon's poor AP, combined with the 5th Ed Wound Allocation Rules, will often result in target Units being able to ignore a significant number of the AP3/No Cover Wounds. Especially if the Griffon causes more Wounds than the Colossus which is likely because of:

Point 3: The Re-roll on the first Scatter die means that you're likely to have it covering most of the Target Unit. That means that anything except a Hit on the second die is going to put the Colossus off of most of the Target Unit. Seriously, set up a Tactical Squad in a reasonable Deployment and roll out a couple dozen shots. You're usually going to be getting way more hits with the Griffon than with the Colossus. Which feeds back into the Wound Allocation Games I mentioned above.

[Pax Urbis Pax Imperi]

Action Report on the "Spotter" from a three game tournament in St. Cloud MN. It did alright, I'm going to have to play some more games with it I think.

Game One: Grey Knights
Results: Did very well.

Turn one, popped a razorback, with a squad of 10 GK inside. Scattered, reroll, hit with griffon, hit with one blast, scatted the second. Killed 9 out of 10.

Turn Two, three: Failed to hit, even with Griffon's Accurate Bombardment

Turn Four: Killed a GK that was with a Grand Master. Grand master invul save passed.

Turn Five: Killed the Grand Master

Game Two: Grey Knights Purifier Spam
Results: Did not get to fire at all during game. Mission Deployment was every uyit would deepstrike in, so could not fire turn one, and was destroyed turn two.

Game Three: Space Wolves
Results: Discovered what "wound allocation" meant.

Turn One: Hit a 5 man Long-Fang Squad dead on with a Griffon, and two Colossus shells. The Long Fangs had two las cannons, two missile launchers, and a Sargent. I did 5 Griffon Wounds, and 9 Colossus wounds. The Las Canons saved due to the wound shenanigans. I was not able to fire again, as I had to move my tanks round two due to a Wolf Lord bearing down, then Turn three the squadron was wrecked by the Wolf Lord

I do see what you mean about wound shenanigans now. But, I took this unit with the expectation it would be fun, and it most certainly was. Plus, it went against the meta, and some players went out of their way to make sure this unit was dead.

[krasimirova]

Lascannon: Griffon, Griffon, Griffon
Lascannon: Griffon, Griffon
ML: Collossus, Collossus, Collossus
ML: Collossus, Collossus, Collossus
Sgt.: Collossus, Collossus, Collossus

Something like that allocation..?

Yep those are some sour grapes, if you had done 2 wounds less with the griffon, then you could have killed 1 more Lascannon.. As mentioned this is one of the major weaknesses with the "spotter" setup.. Same thing if you have a banewolf with a heavy flamer/bolter against MEQ's you can actually end up killing less if you fire both weapons.. Same reason you should never fire your lasguns along with plasmaguns, because you might end up "loosing" plasmashots/wounds..

[ElegaicRequiem]

That doesn't seem like wound allocation RAW. Explain?

[krasimirova]

You have 5 models..

And you have 14 wounds.. (9 of which will kill MEQ's)

You will need to allocate 3 wounds to each, except 1 of them who only gets 2..

You allocate the 9 Collossus wounds to the ML's+Sgt. and the 5 Griffon wounds to the Lascannons.. Because the wounds have been caused by 1 unit (a squadron in this case) they happen at the same time.. Therefore you can "cheat" by allowing saves on 2 of the models..

It isn't pretty and it is a douchy thing to do in a case like the above..

[ElegaicRequiem]

My rulebook says that I have to keep handing out wounds to each as I go along. I can't stack all the wounds onto one guy, and then move on. With different weapons causing wounds, they have to be pointed out separately.

[WestRider]

You can allocate Wounds in any order you like. Doesn't say anything about doing all the Wounds allocated by one Weapon before moving on to the next. So technically, the Allocation is going: Griffon, Griffon, Colossus, Colossus, Colossus, Griffon, Griffon, Colossus, Colossus, Colossus, etc.

To my mind, it's one of the biggest flaws in 5th Ed.

[ElegaicRequiem]

That's just a way around the clear RAI. One extra phrase in the rule is all it would take...

[WestRider]

Depends on just how it works. Might just be asking for every Dev Squad to have two Missile Launchers, a Lascannon, and a Plasmacannon.

I'd rather scrap it and go to a Wound Allocation system that's much simpler from the start.

[Rook]

I don't mind the wound allocation shenanigans. WE can do it also.


That's why ogryns aren't so bad, the Bonehead has a different profile than the standard ogryn so you can shed some wounds off him and being multi-wound models is especially helpful.

[krasimirova]

Jun 20, 2012 21:40:21 GMT -5 ElegaicRequiem said:

That's just a way around the clear RAI. One extra phrase in the rule is all it would take...

RAI vs RAW, that will always be a problem, and has been for the last 3 editions to my knowlegde..

As I said, it isn't pretty or nice to do that way.. But you can..