Centre Line/Hull Mount

[optimat]

Okay, so we all know that the choice in Centre Line or Hull mount depends primarily on your purpose for the tank, but that's fine because I can get an idea of what I'm after still from that. Here's my ideas, but would like some C&C and suggestions. Feel free to copy my list where appropriate or in full.

Multi Laser Chimera - Heavy Bolter
Heavy Bolter Chimera - Heavy Flamer
Heavy Flamer Chimera - Heavy Bolter

Standard Leman Russ - Heavy Flamer
Vanquisher Leman Russ - Lascannon
Executioner Leman Russ - Lascannon
Eradicator Leman Russ - Heavy Bolter
Punisher Leman Russ - Heavy Bolter
Demolisher Leman Russ - Heavy Flamer
Exterminator Leman Russ - Heavy Flamer

Basilisk - Flamer
Medusa - Bolter
Griffon - Flamer
Colossus - Flamer

Hydra - Bolter

Manticore - Flamer

Hellhound - Flamer
Bane Wolf - Flamer
Devil Dog - Melta

What do we think?

[RedsandRoyals]

Personally, I've always thought that putting a hull HF on a Russ of any kind means it will either be useless, or you're going to get the tank punched to death because it got too close to infantry. Given the fact that the Russ is very much a gun wagon, you'd be better off with a hull HB (especially if you add HB sponsons later). Honestly, your default weapon should be an HB, with only Vanquishers, Demolishers, and Executioners getting lascannons

For Chimeras, I firmly believe that the Multi/HF is the way to go. The high str of the Multi makes it excellent against things like HW teams and light vehicles, and having it on a turret mount gives you much more flexibility. Pairing it with a hull HF gives you a decent str template you can throw out when assaulting objectives or supporting disembarked infantry. I know Trooper, Req, Krieg, and other IGMBers who've seen me play can attest to how useful they are.

If you want a straight gun wagon, dual HBs are the way to go, giving you decent anti infantry firepower. A turret HF is something of an odd choice from the get go, since ranged weapons usually work better with that 360 deg of fire. That said, if you already get the HF turret, I'd say you might as well go all the way in and get a hull HF too, giving you a poor man's hellhound.

For Hellhound variants, I know some like to give meltas to the Banewolf and Hellhound to avoid wound-allocation tricks with the two templates, but I prefer the loadout you listed. Finally, for arty, I like my HBs, but I know a lot of people run HFs to counter flankers.

Reds

[optimat]

Fair enough points! Gives me stuff to think about.

My only reason for flamers on the in direct artillery was, as you mentioned, taking out flankers where needed. On the assumption that non line of sight weapons would be hidden behind cover, the only reason I could argue for taking the HB would be low terrain games or if you had squadrons where 3 heavy flamers would arguably be a waste of your options.

Leman Russ argument I can take on and understand, glad I didn't build either of mine up yet. I started off thinking about which Russ' I would use as line breakers and give them the assault type weapon so that poor BS doesn't do you over, but I suppose a 3 shot heavy weapon is going to be the better option when you have Chimeras in your army to fulfill the mid-range tank fiasco.

I do have 1 Chimera that is turret mounted heavy flamer, it was mostly for modelling purposes as transport for my Pyro Vets, but decided against Flamer/Flamer for the same reason - the squad already has a lot of those that could be shot out the top if I were to ever use them that way. I like how you put a poor-mans Hellhound too because my plan is to run those two (Flamer Chimera/Hellhound) together as part of the driving force of the army, along with Rough Riders. Whether this is really highly competitive or not doesn't bother me so much.

... the other chimera was always planned to be Multi-Laser and HF so I'm glad to see that ranks highly as a good choice.

[RedsandRoyals]

If you want to use a Russ to break a line, do it from a distance with overwhelming fire support. Things like hellhound variants and chimera vets (maybe with a Demolisher in support) are good for mixing it up at close range, so leave the ranged fire support to Russes. I get the arty+HF thing, it's just not my personal preference. Either one works. Worst comes to worst and you lose the gun on your arty, you end up with a HF on a chimera chassis roaming around the battlefield, which isn't too bad.

Reds

[WestRider]

My thoughts, where they differ:
- Multilaser Chimerae: I run Heavy Flamers on about half to a third of mine, usually the ones carrying things like Command Squads or MeltaVets that are going to be getting up close. If they're staying back and bunkering, the Heavy Bolter is useful, adds a little extra punch against Infantry and the occasional Glance against Rhinos and Razorbacks.

- Russ variants: I generally run a Heavy Bolter on Exterminators and Eradicators, unless I'm specifically tasking an exterminator with Anti-Transport duties, in which case it gets a Lascannon.
- Most other variants get a Lascannon or Heavy Bolter, depending on Points availability.
- The only Russ I regularly take a Heavy Flamer on is the Executioner, if I can't afford a Hull Lascannon. The purpose is just to keep me from absent-mindedly firing the Heavy Bolter and letting my target play Wound Allocation tricks.

- Pretty much everywhere else, I agree with you, tho I will sometimes run a Heavy Flamer on a DevilDog to save Points and pick up a bit of Duality, or conversely, I'll occasionally take a Multi-Melta on a HellHound if I've got some spare Points and want the Duality.

[Machine Gun Kelly]

I prefer running my LMR with a lascannon. It keeps them versatile enough to attack all targets. As long as they can see something they have a shot at killling something. With only HB you can end up in them not having the opportunity to attack anything because everything has to high AV.

Just the last game I had one LMR with only its LC left and it was immobilized. The dread that had smashed it up didn´t finish off the job but left it there to go hunt another LMR.
So I shot the LC at another 2 twinlinked AC dread on the other side of the board that where playing havoc with my troopers holding the center objective. The dread went up in a ball of flame.

[krasimirova]

Optimat: You can't make a list like that, the weapon setup varies from list to list as you point out yourself.. So making the list you just made is kinda redundant..:/

[Trickstick]

Well there are a lot of standard loads that are very good, although you may want to tweak a few here and there. I actually spent a lot of time thinking about my loadouts, as I don't use switchable weaponry. Mine are:

Chimera /w Multilaser and hull flamer - As Reds said, a very good combo. However, I have seen turret flamer/hull bolter used very well. Mainly for its ability to tank shock and fire down its flanks, with others firing as well. Front flamers can't do this very well, at least without exposing their armour by turning.

LRBT - Classic las with bolter sponsons. Can deal with anything and looks great. The lascannon is nice for when you are trying to pop transports or firing at marines.

Demolisher - Lascannon. Good Synergy with the main gun, makes it able to hunt tanks.

All arty get flamers. As I see it, they usually only get to fire their hull mount once or twice, if at all. The flamer gives the best burst of damage, wheras the bolter is better if it can fire over the course of the match. Very useful when genestealers turn up.

Hydra is the only chimera hul I have with a bolter and that is because it is such a good fit.

[TheHoboHunter]

I think that, like everything else in the Imperial Guard, it comes down to a combination of "it depends" and "what does your list lack?"

Personally, the biggest deal for me was the fact that since all 3 of my Russes are from the previous kit (and codex), there was no option save for Hull LCs and sponson HBs. No, don't even suggest those flamers. Just don't. And I'm not keen on sponsonless 'naked' Russes either. I just paid over 150pts for this vehicle, I'd like it to have some weight if it loses its turret.

All things considered though, I'm actually a fan of the Las/HB combo. Since my list lacks heavy Las presence, it doesn't hurt having a tank that can still be a threat there. I'd only really consider the 3xHB variant if we could still move and fire all three. With the new codex giving all Russes all sponson options, I've been considering using a standard Russ w/Plasma Cannons. I normally use mine to paste large disembarked squads, so I'd be interested to see how it would compare with an Executioner against everything not in 2+ armour.


I've seen a lot of naked Demolishers, with simply turret+Las, and it's something I hadn't actually considered (as mentioned earlier). I personally run mine nearly as over the top as possible, with Las+Plas, and use it to hunt terminators. Hunting vehicles comes a close second, and in worst case scenario it works like my two regular LRBTs. It's like a poor-man's-Executioner (can't believe I said that about the most expensive thing in my army) that can actually scare vehicles.

I've been tempted to switch out for melta sponsons but the range just puts me off a little. With the gunline guard I run, I often just sit back with my tanks and unload ordnance. People end up being afraid of the fact it can reach out 36-48" and touch them with its other weapons, and so they either avoid it like the plague or rush up to melta it into slag. Then they get into 24".
And get Demolished.
Delicious.

I can't really comment too much on Chimeras (Chimerii? Chimerae?). I use my single Chimera to pillbox my veterans and shoot down transports, so the ML+HB is a no-brainer to me. Like RedsandRoyals, I understand the flamer-artillery, but I prefer HBs myself. I guess it just doesn't sit right with me to imagine my basilisk crew arming their ordnance platforms with touch-range weaponry, is all.