IG Allies

[shifty60]

Hello All,

Well the 6th Ed has been dropped. I, like most of you I’m sure, have my copy of the new book and have stared the learning proses all over again.

In this thread I wanted to discuss the Allies, and run an idea I have by all of you.

I plan on keeping my gunline style guard, typically 2 tanks, manticore, vets w/heavy weapon teams. No more power weapon blobs after the changes to CC. Definitely will be bringing my snipers now, may even model more!

The allies I was thinking about taking at Black Templars to balance out my lack of heavy CC. Possibly a tricked out Marshall, a bare bones crusader squad to fill the one troop slot, then a tricked out sword brethren squad. Maybe even add in an Emperors Champion if I have room.

In theory this will allow me to advance with these melee hitters, or at the lease provide a distraction/screen as my IG guns do their work. The crusader squad adds another scoring unit that is more survivable than a guardsman squad.

What do you guys think, I’m open to all question, comments and criticism, and of course feel free to throw out your ideas for Allies in your list.

[emptyhat]

Wouldn't you be required to take an Emperor's Champion before you think about adding a Marshal?

Crusader squads can take a Land Raider Crusader as a transport, could be pretty swish if you had the points.

[shifty60]

From what I understand, the Emerors Champion does not fill the mandatory HQ slot, and you are only required to take him in a "Black Templar Army" of 750points or greater.... So I'm guessing if I go say 1500 of IG and 500 of BT this would be legal?

[Hookah, S.C.]

Someone mentioned that Techpriests are much better in this ed, are Techmarines A) better per points and B) more useful?

As they might make a decent addition since as battle brothers, they can use their abilities on our troops/vehicles.

[shifty60]

I know Techpriests/Techmarines can now restore Hull Points. So each turn you can either repair an immobilised, weapon destroyed, add a Hull Point (up to its starting ammount)

[Hookah, S.C.]

Jul 3, 2012 11:15:41 GMT -5 shifty60 said:

I know Techpriests/Techmarines can now restore Hull Points. So each turn you can either repair an immobilised, weapon destroyed, add a Hull Point (up to its starting ammount)

Indeed, that's what I'm wondering, would a techmarine be a better addition than a techpriest due to increased chances of survival, and slightly better weapons/loadout?

[WestRider]

Techmarines/Techpriests are better now, but still not good enough to be worth taking, I think. They're just too expensive and vulnerable. For 105 Points, you're fixing one Hull Point/Damage Result per Turn. This seems like a decent bargain at first, but there are a number of problems:
1) It's pretty easy for your Opponent to shoot away the Tech Priest, or at least his Servitors, if they've got much Mobility or Indirect fire at all.
2) You've only got a 6" Radius around the Techpriest where he can fix things. If your Vehicles are clumped up that tightly, they're total Blast Bait in 6th Ed.
3) The same Problem that leads to every Nid player experimenting with Regeneration and then dropping it: At reasonably large Points Values, it's way too easy for your Opponent to focus his firepower and take out a Tank completely in one Turn.
4) 105 Points is non-negligible. At that point, you're either picking up a dude who will likely patch up most of a Russ, or you're just shelling out for most of another Russ right then and there, which will give you roughly the same effect in the long run, and radically more Firepower in the short run.

[Lord General Armstrong]

Ogryns they're an assault unit which is neither scoring, fast, capable of deep striking nor have access to an assault vehicle and require a character to be effective.

Compare them to a similar unit, like allied Ork Nobz.

Used to be Ogryns were outclassed by allied Grey Knight Terminators ... I actually rejoiced when that option was removed from the game. Little did I know it would return in an even more degenerate form.

[WestRider]

I'm thinking Space Wolves are going to be my go-to Allies*. Rune Priests had one of the best forms of Psychic Defense before, and it's one of the ones that didn't get nerfed. They've got some great Counter-Assault Units (I'm thinking ThunderWolves), Grey Hunters add a significant amount of flexibility to our Troops, Wolf Scouts can add some nice disruption, and even in a Guard base list, Long Fangs are a decent option.

*At least when I'm playing my actual Guard, and not my Culties, who will of course get CSM or Daemon Allies.

[tonba]

Im running some normal marines..

Master of the Forge
5x Thunderhammer/Storm Shield Termies
5x Scouts w/ Snipers & Missile Launcher
5x Scouts w/ Snipers & Missile Launcher
Thunderfire Cannon w/ Drop Pod

I normally use the drop pod empty and use its teleporter homer to help the terminators 'center in'.

Scouts take advanced positions infront of my armoured column, and take down special units/monsters.

Thunderfire cannon will be used in an anti-inf/anti-light vehicle roll.

Master of the forge will help repair my armoured column, while providing some really leathal CC ability to help defend my tanks.

[vladimir]

I'm running Eldar allies (heresy!), to get psychic defense with a Farseer with Runes of Warding and Divination (basic power is awesome), and a cheap unit of Eldar Jetbikes to keep on reserve and use them to get the line breaker point.

I'm using a Primaris Psyker as the Farseer and Jetbikes with converted riders to avoid a weird mix of models and get a better visual effect on my whole army.

[WestRider]

Divination doesn't actually do much in that mix. Because Eldar and Guard are only Allies of Convenience, your Guard aren't considered "friendly Models" for purposes of the Farseer's Psychic Powers.

Also, where are you putting your Farseer? Without a Unit to hide in (AoC can't Join each other's Units) he's dead as soon as someone looks at him funny.

[vladimir]

Oct 19, 2012 9:11:28 GMT -5 WestRider said:

Divination doesn't actually do much in that mix. Because Eldar and Guard are only Allies of Convenience, your Guard aren't considered "friendly Models" for purposes of the Farseer's Psychic Powers.

Umh, that's true, I would then use Doom.

Also, where are you putting your Farseer? Without a Unit to hide in (AoC can't Join each other's Units) he's dead as soon as someone looks at him funny.

Out of line of sight, inside ruins or behind large pieces of terrain.

[WestRider]

That works if you can find good Terrain for him.

[commisarblur]

Ran an SM Liberian with Tatical squads and a Storm talon for air supieriority with my guard at one time. It was hit or miss.

[WestRider]

Guard shouldn't need help from Allies for Air Superiority. Between the Vendetta and the Hydra, we're one of the go-to Allies for Air Superiority.

More generally, when looking at Allies, you really need to look hard at the Troops and HQ you're getting. If they're not a big part of why you're taking that Allied contingent, you need to think long and hard about whether it's worth paying that "tax" on the EL, FA, or HS Unit you're bringing in.

This is one of the reasons I love Space Wolves so much as an Allied option: They've got great HQ and Troops options, something that'll suit just about any build, so no matter what your base List, there's a SW Allied Contingent for it with no real "Ally Tax". Few other Armies have both HQs and Troops options that good.

[tiberius183]

Going to be experimenting with GK allies. I was thinking Coteaz, a 3-man warband of just warrior acolytes (just to satisfy the troop requirement), and attaching Coteaz to a full 10-man Purifier squad with 4 psycannons.

My logic is that that Spy Network would be incredibly helpful to keep my opponent from seizing the initiative if I go first (that way I can setup offensively with little worry), and IBEU would help against pesky daemon builds that seem to be the meta lately. Maybe (if points allow) throw in some regular GK strike squads for warp quake for added DZ defense.

Plausible?

[The Hawk!]

When my Guard army gets up and running, I'll be using Dark Angel Allies (I already have a solid start from DV ) Not entirley sure were Dark Angels Excel though :/ Fast attack? Any information on this topic would be invaluable Anyhow, seeing as I've now basically got my head round the new rules, I'd say Guard got a nuts tonne better this ed. Its Easier to kill the Russes now I suppose... But snap shots if we're charged seems to have given us that chance to thin out our enemies more with our Laser Pens

Dave

[WestRider]

tiberius183: GK have good enough Troops that I think I'd shell out for a real Troops Choice there. I'm thinking of messing around with Coteaz plus a couple of big Strike Squads, myself, since Coteaz is better when he's got a couple of solid Friendly Units he can toss Divination powers on. Or maybe come up with another 38 Points to take Crowe instead of Coteaz and make the Purifiers into Troops. Having a durable, powerful Troops Choice available is a big help to Guard.

@thing: The usual thing I see people doing with DA Allies is taking Belial so you can get Fearless Terminators as Troops. They're supposed to be the next Dex up for a re-write, tho, so I'm not sure how much I'd want to invest in them at this point. Getting a Land Speeder Squadron or Ravenwing Attack Squad for some fast disruption/melta is a decent option as well, but their Tactical Squads are horribly overcosted, and their Elite/Heavy Support options really don't offer much of anything to Guard.

If you didn't need Belial to unlock the Troops Terminators, a DA Librarian would be a good HQ option, since they're Bros with Guard, and can roll Divination. As it stands, Space Wolves are probably the better option for that approach, tho.

[hendrik]

as a space wolf player i'd like to point out space wolves are always a guardsmans' best friends!especially over those pesky dress wearing muffins!
on a more serious note, personally i think grey knights or space wolves are two of the best available (loyalist) allies we can take. space wolves get acces to a lot of the goodies every other chapter has acces to and are overall thought of as superior in comparison to the standard space marine infantry squad

[Soap]

Well, call me boring, or tight, or both, but seen as iv got the DV box, my allies will be Dark Angles

[vinny0698]

i will +1 on the Dark Angel allies, ive done a few games using them but mainly in high points games. i have tried them as allies and guard as allies. my fave one is one along the lines of,

Beliel
chaplain in termie armour
Ezekiel
6 sqds termies all thss
land raider crusaider

Lord comm
Lord comm
4x vet sqds
4x vendetta
avenger
thunderbolt

push termie sqd with hqs in lrc into the middle ground along with two more sqds termies. i leave the rest on objectives. hover and dissembark guardsmen onto opponents objectives on the last turn. this has never failed me yet.

[Comrade]

If I do use allies its ORKS!!!!!

I field 2x 30 man shoota mobs w/ PK Nob & 3 RL

and a Single tooled out Warboss with PK, Shoot Rokkit, 5 attacks base, 4+/5++

both combined run at 500ish points.

I rush them ahead of my army, in a general blanket move, or at enemy hardpoints and CC units.

My Combine Plasma platoons move up from 12-24" behind and mop up anything left standing after the orks have done their damage. Standard FRFSRF at anything with 24" while pulling back.

Support that by 3 LRMBTs = WIN... most of the time

[Julian Sharps]

With some experimentation, I've found Dark Eldar to be a surprisingly effective allied force when paired up with an Imperial Guard gunline.

Think about it; Dark Eldar in an assault or counter-assault role are fast, reasonably effective in melee, and can do wonders when it comes to slowing down your opponent's advancing troops, taking the fight directly to him, and generally wreaking havoc behind his lines. Their Troops units have easy access to one of the best anti-tank units in the game (Wyches w/ haywire grenades), they can put out a truly insane number of darklights, and, since they work best on the offensive, you don't have to worry much about the desperate allies problem.

Such a Dark Eldar contingent, typically based around Wyches and Reavers (units that most Dark Eldar players don't use as scoring units under normal circumstances anyway), would be best used to deny your opponent objectives (preferably by driving them off), and can go a long way toward getting you get those secondary objective points. A mere 500 points of Dark Eldar allies can dish out a truly tremendous amount of damage if they're used intelligently and, with any luck, will help prevent your opponent from claiming that Linebreaker point.