|
|
Post by Rommel44 on Jul 6, 2012 4:08:33 GMT -5
Hey mates. At this point in time I currently have my 2000 point list near completion, with my only hiccups coming from my last heavy slot. what to arm my Scout Sentinels with and debating on running either a Lord Commissar w/Storm Trooper or a CCS as my HQ choice. Currently, the plan is to run a Mechanized list with 7x Chimeras, and with them I currently will be testing out 2x Demolisher LRBT's as not only are the awesome tanks but the S10 cannon got quite a boost in 6th edition. At the moment, I am debating on what 3rd LRBT varient to get,and I'm currently leaning towards either the LR Punisher w/a hull-mounted hvy bolter and heavy bolter side sponsors and Pask for the 20x shots at BS4, or the Exterminator w/a hull-mounted hvy bolter and heavy bolter side sponsors and Pask, and granted it only has 13x total shots compared to the 29x the Punisher can dish out, the 4x Shots from the autocannon can be very useful at taking out certain tagets depending on the army I am fighting. Anyways, just looking for opinions and advice from you veterans as whcih tank would probably serve me best, or if you think a different varient other then these 2x LRBT's would serve me better ( Note: Not liking the Executioner to much as it now can glance itself to death easily with the new Plasma rules, which is a shame to say the least  . ) Thanks for the help. |
|
|
|
Post by Wraelis on Jul 6, 2012 4:59:03 GMT -5
I personally love the Exterminator. I use it to pop transports and whittle down monstrous creatures. After it's done doing that it's great at mopping up infantry. The Punisher is lacking the range of the Exterminator and isn't putting out those high strength shots that can put the hurt on transports. Once you put Pask in the Exterminator, those 4 twin-linked autocannon shots at BS 4 are pretty sweet. Especially because of the crack shot rule which means those 4 shots are now S 8.
|
|
|
|
Post by optimat on Jul 6, 2012 13:56:29 GMT -5
I tossed this up myself, between these two. I decided on the Exterminator for the reasons above, so there's little point in me posting much else. The Punisher looks good and is a very cool model to have in your army but is lacking for the points cost in comparison to the Ex.
|
|
|
|
Post by WestRider on Jul 6, 2012 22:33:08 GMT -5
Exterminator, hands down. It can strip Hull Points from lots of Vehicles, has enough Firepower to lay down some serious Anti-Infantry hurt, and can do it all from 36" away.
S5 removes a whole bunch of possible targets from the Punisher's options, and the 24" Range on the main gun puts it into some really scary territory to fire effectively. If it were the same cost as the Exterminator, it might well be useful at some points, but there's no way it's worth 20% increase on the cost of the base chassis.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rommel44 on Jul 9, 2012 2:51:39 GMT -5
Thanks for the help so far mates. As it stands at the moment, I actually tested 2x games out with the Demolishers and was trying out the Exterminator w/Pask in one and the Punisher w/Pask in the other to see what they can do. Overall, the Exterminator performed great as it continued to destroy and glance to death my opponents Orc Buggies (I think thats what they are called anyways), while the Demolishers did alright, however where severely limited by there 24 inch range, and in the 2nd game (another Orc player), the Demolishers again didnt perform as well as I thought they would due to there range, however he Punisher w/Pask did great at mowing down his hordes, and even managed to glance the new Orc bomber to death in the process.
After these two games, I plan two switch out the Demolishers with standard LRBT as my list currently has enough Plasma and AP 1 @ 2 weaponry to deal with Terminators and other heavy infantry, however I am still torn between the Punisher and Exterminator as both performed very well in both games.
|
|
|
|
Post by iggy666 on Jul 11, 2012 10:47:48 GMT -5
The Exterminator is 30pts cheaper for:
24" extra range
+2 strength
16 less shots, but is twin linked
Ignoring Pask (because he will help them both) the Punisher will hit 10 times and the exterminator will hit 3 times. When wounding infantry the punisher will wound 6-8 times (t3 or 4) and the exterminator will wound 2-3 times (even against t5!). The exterminator will ignore the armor of things that are most likely getting cover and therefore its decent ap is hardly superior to the punisher's. The punisher is better at killing infantry, and is worth the points for it, so if you're looking for anti infantry then take the punisher.
The exterminator is better because it has the versatility to kill whatever is on the board. Not the best for MCs or heavy infantry, but it can tear through light to medium vehicles and infantry. The Punisher is really only good against infantry, decent against light tanks or rear armour. When fighting a war, versatility must never be underestimated.
|
|
|
|
Post by WestRider on Jul 11, 2012 22:55:31 GMT -5
The deeper analysis also leaves out the differences in Range and Cost. The Punisher is fairly often (at least a couple of Turns per Game) going to have to move to get into Range, which cuts down on the benefits of its Sponsons, bringing the damage of the Tank as a whole back in favour of the Exterminator. As I mentioned, that also often brings it into more risky situations, too.
When you look at the damage output of the usual Builds you see, and correct for the difference in Points Costs, it comes down to something like a 2-3% improvement in Anti-Infantry performance for the Punisher, Point for Point, at the cost of so much Range and Versatility.
|
|
|
|
Post by portugus on Jul 19, 2012 11:19:43 GMT -5
Also note that the Executioner plasma cannon does not have the "Gets Hot" USR so it won't burn itself to death. Only if you put plasma cannon sponsons on it would it chance to burn itself.
I've used both in games before and I have to agree that the exterminator is very useful killing dreadnaughts left and right in my game (with pask against an apocalypse dreadnaught formation)
The punisher was good at killing boyz. But sure was fun being able to to "Heavy 20, oh yeah!" every time I fired it. I'm thinking of putting in a punisher over an exterminator in my 6th ed list even though the exterminator is cheaper and better against more targets.
(If only the punisher could overwatch lol)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2012 13:29:35 GMT -5
Spankings or Daleks ?
|
|
|
|
Post by WestRider on Jul 19, 2012 22:59:26 GMT -5
When I run my three Exterminators together, I actually do refer to them as "Dalek Squadron"  |
|
|
|
Post by Rook on Aug 6, 2012 19:46:29 GMT -5
Now that the entire template is full strength I would take a second look at the Eradicator. I love that tank.
Str 6 against rear armor is still not that bad. Denying cover is always nice too.
|
|
|
|
Post by krasimirova on Aug 7, 2012 2:29:34 GMT -5
Str 6 against rear armor is still not that bad. Denying cover is always nice too. How do you get rear armor shots, besides shooting at them from behind ofc..? |
|
|
|
Post by Rook on Aug 7, 2012 19:51:48 GMT -5
Str 6 against rear armor is still not that bad. Denying cover is always nice too. How do you get rear armor shots, besides shooting at them from behind ofc..? There are times when you will be able to shoot the rear of tanks and vehicles. That is essentially what I meant. Of course every shot won't be at the rear arc. |
|
|
|
Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 7, 2012 20:38:09 GMT -5
How do you get rear armor shots, besides shooting at them from behind ofc..? There are times when you will be able to shoot the rear of tanks and vehicles. That is essentially what I meant. Of course every shot won't be at the rear arc. Most won't, really. That's the real issue. Str 6 can do damage against rear armour, but I'd rather have a tank in that HS slot that can damage side or front, since those are far more common targets. That said, I do like the eradicator. It's just so specialized... Reds |
|
|
|
Post by Rook on Aug 7, 2012 21:34:30 GMT -5
There are times when you will be able to shoot the rear of tanks and vehicles. That is essentially what I meant. Of course every shot won't be at the rear arc. Most won't, really. That's the real issue. Str 6 can do damage against rear armour, but I'd rather have a tank in that HS slot that can damage side or front, since those are far more common targets. That said, I do like the eradicator. It's just so specialized... Reds I've used the Eradicator to good effect. Sure it's not awesome at everything...but um...no tank is good at everything. Since with the new terrains and being able to get a 2+ cover save it really is pretty good. I run mine with a lascannon(almost always) and sometimes bolters(3) all around. I have yet to try it with the meltas though. |
|
|
|
Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 7, 2012 21:44:39 GMT -5
Most won't, really. That's the real issue. Str 6 can do damage against rear armour, but I'd rather have a tank in that HS slot that can damage side or front, since those are far more common targets. That said, I do like the eradicator. It's just so specialized... Reds I've used the Eradicator to good effect. Sure it's not awesome at everything...but um...no tank is good at everything. Well, the basic MBT pretty much is, especially depending on how you outfit it. Cheaper too, overall. I'm not saying your way doesn't work, I'm just saying the LRMBT is a safer bet, that's all. Reds |
|
|
|
Post by dangerrod on Aug 8, 2012 10:11:21 GMT -5
For 10pts more, you may as well pick the Executioner over the Punisher
For equal points, you may as well pick the vanilla russ over the Exterminator
Danger Rod
|
|
|
|
Post by Rook on Aug 8, 2012 11:29:29 GMT -5
I've used the Eradicator to good effect. Sure it's not awesome at everything...but um...no tank is good at everything. Well, the basic MBT pretty much is, especially depending on how you outfit it. It's no good against critters in cover! Of course it largely depends on who you fight. My main opponents are Orks and Eldar and the players use cover constantly(as one should). I look at how they deploy armies in the Rule Books and laugh because nothing ever seems to be in any type of cover. In THAT instance a LRMBT is better. Have you ever fielded an Eradicator Reds? |
|
|
|
Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 8, 2012 12:36:32 GMT -5
Well, the basic MBT pretty much is, especially depending on how you outfit it. It's no good against critters in cover! Of course it largely depends on who you fight. My main opponents are Orks and Eldar and the players use cover constantly(as one should). I look at how they deploy armies in the Rule Books and laugh because nothing ever seems to be in any type of cover. In THAT instance a LRMBT is better. Have you ever fielded an Eradicator Reds? Yup, mainly against Nids but also some other non MEQ armies. It was good at taking out gribbly swarms, but my hellhound was even better. I prefer the MBT version because, well, over half the armies out there are MEQ in some form or another, and the basic MBT can handle them no problem, in addition to lighter stuff. It can also handle light and medium vehicles (AV 13+ was where it struggled in the old Ed, not sure about this one), and between that nice big template and HB sponsons, it could do decent wound spam to units in cover. Generally speaking, it does more things better for less than most other tank variants, especially if the other option is a tooled up Russ. I tend to face a mix of Guard and Marines when I play, though, so versatility is the order of the day for my lists usually, rather than specialized units like the Eradicator. I also tend to use the Hellhound like you're talking about using the Eradicator. It mostly digs out infantry, and can drop two templates instead of one (depending on distance moved), and both of them auto hit, although their range isn't quite as good. That said, due to their speed, I find it's easier to get shots at the rear of transports or tanks if no tastier targets present themselves. I think both Req and Trooper have had their vehicles killed or damaged by my flamethrower vets or my hellhound at some point. Reds |
|
|
|
Post by Rook on Aug 8, 2012 14:00:37 GMT -5
It's no good against critters in cover! Of course it largely depends on who you fight. My main opponents are Orks and Eldar and the players use cover constantly(as one should). I look at how they deploy armies in the Rule Books and laugh because nothing ever seems to be in any type of cover. In THAT instance a LRMBT is better. Have you ever fielded an Eradicator Reds? Yup, mainly against Nids but also some other non MEQ armies. It was good at taking out gribbly swarms, but my hellhound was even better. I prefer the MBT version because, well, over half the armies out there are MEQ in some form or another, and the basic MBT can handle them no problem, in addition to lighter stuff. It can also handle light and medium vehicles (AV 13+ was where it struggled in the old Ed, not sure about this one), and between that nice big template and HB sponsons, it could do decent wound spam to units in cover. Generally speaking, it does more things better for less than most other tank variants, especially if the other option is a tooled up Russ. I tend to face a mix of Guard and Marines when I play, though, so versatility is the order of the day for my lists usually, rather than specialized units like the Eradicator. I also tend to use the Hellhound like you're talking about using the Eradicator. It mostly digs out infantry, and can drop two templates instead of one (depending on distance moved), and both of them auto hit, although their range isn't quite as good. That said, due to their speed, I find it's easier to get shots at the rear of transports or tanks if no tastier targets present themselves. I think both Req and Trooper have had their vehicles killed or damaged by my flamethrower vets or my hellhound at some point. Reds I will say this...if there were only ONE Leman Russ available I would want it to be the LRMBT or the Demo as a very close second. Ideally I will probably field a collection of different Russes when I play next. Probably a Eradicator, LRMBT, and a Demolisher with different sponsons, hull, and pintle weapons. I need a change in play style. Hellhounds get it done and I've found mine to draw an inordinate amount of hate when they are deployed. Same goes for the Bane Wolf which has never lasted more than two turns after being deployed. With the new assault rules versus vehicles the HH variants will be much easier to kill. Although you say the HH can drop two templates instead of my one let's not forget you can equip a Eradicator with hull/sponson HFs and a dozerblade to help get close and personal. That really only works well against large units like Guard, but still... |
|
. ) Thanks for the help.
