No Guns Nid List

[treadiculous]

: Westrider, It seems you have a good handle on what 6th means for Tyranids, I'm still toying with ideas for my Nids but my Corsairs are almost sorted so it'll be time to be collecting the next race soon.

I guess the change to charge rules and furious charge effect this list, as does the change to psychic powers... but does it still hold its own?

It got a little confusing before, but this is basically the list (5th edition version):

Tyrant + Old Adversary, Armoured Shell, Regen

Tervigon, Toxic + Catalyst, + 10 Gaunt

Tervigon, Toxic + Catalyst, + 10 Gaunt

Trygon + Regen

Venomhrope

= 1000

Tyrant Guard x 2

Trygon

Ravener x 6 ... OR another Trygon (might need to lose regen on the other one but thats fine).

= 1500



For reference to the old discussion AND a really really handy breakdown on how many gaunts a Tervigon will produce see here:

commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=hoard&action=display&thread=13451

Thanks in advance everyone!

[WestRider]

Unfortunately, I've always played my Nids as a shooty Army*, and 6th is pushing me even further in that direction. I'm pretty much all about DakkaFexen, DevilGaunts, Hive Guard, and Screening/Supporting Units these days.

Gunless Nids might still be workable, but I'm not the guy to ask about them. The one thing I will say is that Adrenal Glands are now nearly mandatory on Tärvs, letting the Gaunts near them swarm down Rear AV10 Vehicles, particularly Transports. It only takes something like 14 Furious Charging Termagants to Wreck a Rhino on average now, and with RCL there will be even more times when they'll be able to surround it, tho it's nothing to count on.

*Seriously. The first Unit I put together and painted up was Devilgaunts.

[treadiculous]

Cool, thanks anyway..

I'm looking forward to finally getting some Tyranid action.. still afew months away but exciting times!.. I'm still hooked on the image of many mighty spikey drooling beasts mawing their way through my Guard - I might need to go hunting for interesting 6th ed tactics - I'll post if I find anything good!

Changes I can see at the moment are:

Rage is better (though is instinctive behaviour Rage different?).
Furious Charge is only Strength now (and lost if multi charging)
Charge Range is random
No Assault on arrival from Outflanking
Psychic Defence and Psychic Power Choices...

ps... 'RCL' ?

Cheers, tread

[WestRider]

RDL=Random Charge Length. It has its ups and downs, but on the whole, it's a bit of a nerf to Assault Armies, especially in combination with Overwatch and the new Wound Allocation system.

The change to Rage isn't really worth trying to abuse most of the time. The only way I'd try to do it is using Dominion to keep something in Synapse through my Opponent's Turn, and then dropping it on mine so they can roll IB, or maybe with CombatFexen. Leaving non-Fearless Units out of Synapse during your Opponent's Turn is way too risky, given how harsh the limitations on Regrouping are.

Psychic Powers: It's pretty much all about Biomancy for Nids as far as I can tell. Only Haemorrage actually sucks, and four of the remaining 6 are excellent, especially on Tyrants or Tärvigons.

Telekinesis is OK, with Objuration Mechanicum being excellent, and the rest of the Discipline being mediocre to bad. If you're up against Flyers, going for OM is pretty much the only thing a gunless Nid Army is going to be able to do other than try to swarm everywhere they could land and force them to crash.

A lot of people really like Telepathy, but it seems too hit and miss for me. I don't mean a mix of good and bad powers, just about every power in there is capable of being great or worthless from Turn to Turn.

[treadiculous]

I'm wondering about a Flyrant.. I'm thinking it could be an additional HQ alongside the walking one with 2 guards. It comes in at a similar cost to a Trygon Prime (which is what it'll replace in the list) and my thought is to give one HQ the preferred enemy buff and the other HQ the +1 reserves and 1 unit outflank ability...

I'm thinking that I could have the Trygon Prime arrive by tunnel, and the Flyrant head for the same spot and one of the Tervigons be placed in reserve to arrive from the tunnel if it can OR arrive by outflank if the tunneller doesn't get there in time.

6th ed reserves rules are a lot more friendly and this above tactic could work as there is a failsafe for the Terv if things don't go to plan. It does mean a third of the army are in reserve and that the rest of the army will be taking the additional firepower (though a good opponent should be focussing their fire anyway).

!) Will the Flyrant with 2 x Talons be better than a Trygon Prime?

.. I guess 2 Trygons mean 2 x the likelihood that the Terv will get its tunnel AND also not get shot at on route to the target... but then a whole half of the army is underground!

2) Which HQ would you give Hive Commander and which the Old Adversary?

3) Is this worth while?

..I like the variety of big scary models this brings to a table.. is there a better tactic to play with Flyrants and the Wall of T6?

Cheers in advance!

[WestRider]

The Trygon Tunnel really doesn't work. Well, it doesn't work at all in this case, because only Infantry Units can use it, not MCs, but in general, it's a terrible option.

- You can't use it with Units that are Outflanking or Deep Striking, only those coming on from regular Reserves. So if it doesn't work, they really do need to come in on your Board Edge. No Infantry Unit in the Nid Army wants to do that.
- You need the Trygon to turn up at least a turn before the Unit that's supposed to come through the Tunnel. With Hive Commander in effect, this is spectacularly improbable unless you're holding a huge number of Infantry Units back in Reserves.

I think I'd rather have a Trygon Prime than a combat Flyrant. More Attacks, more Wounds, never has to worry about Grounding Tests. With 6th Ed Cover Rules, it's pretty easy to get Cover for Trygons now, too, which was one of their other disadvantages compared to a Flyrant* before.

After the latest FAQ, Dakka Flyrants are awesome, but combat Flyrants are still kind of mediocre.

*Well, depends on how it's Modeled. It's often way harder for my Flyrant to get Cover than a Trygon.

[treadiculous]

I'm picking my Nid Codex up tonight as I'd lent it to a friend some time ago.. I'll have a good read of it and all the relevant FAQ's before I next post!

Thanks for all the help!

[treadiculous]

.. How effective is a Swarmlord.. he's expensive but I like the 18" range of effect he can provide, He would probably be able to assist both Tervigon and Guant Mobs

does he do well and is he better than any thing in a similar region such as Trygon Prime, Tervigon or Tryrant.

Considering the list at the top of this thread... which is better?
A) Tyrant with Armoured Shell + Regen + 2 Hive Guard
B) Swarmlord and 2 Zoanthropes

A is definetly more durable while B gives a little bit of psychic range tank killing and a big boost to the Tervigon + Gaunt units which should be giving the Swarmlord some cover.

Normally I don't go near special characters, but the Swarmlord fluff indicates that he is a character the hive mind uses again and again so is more likely to appear on a battleground than say - Creed or Yarrick (who are far too busy to answer my requests for tactical support).

[WestRider]

Sorry, I've never used Swarmy, or even given him much thought, so I really don't know how he does.

The Armoured Shell is a huge advantage in 6th, tho, conveying much greater protection against most Power Weapons than the SwarmLord's Blade Parry, and letting an AS Tyrant tank twice as much Small Arms Fire and way more Missiles.

[3ff3ct]

Wow, you are a font of knowledge Westrider. I haven't played my Nids for quite a while, and now I feel a bit more like I could get back into the swing of things with ease!

[akaiyou]

As someone that plays nids of all varieties and who's first Tyranid army list for 6th edition looked like this :

commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=hoard&action=display&thread=15857

I can tell you with most certainty that assault nids have taken a huge blow this edition.

Hugely due to the fact that they will lack any sort of reasonable response to Flyers. My imperial guard opponent had 2 flyers a valkyrie and a storm talon and for the life of me they won him the game, those things were just unkillable. And while you can deal with them by filling up the table this tactic is easily countered by just killing ur gaunts faster than u can spawn them thus its not reliable.

Assault based Tyranid armies will FAIL in most cases against any opponent brining more than one effective flyer. Your only hope at dealing with any kind of flyers to a degree would be 3 trygon primes and shooting rear armor on flyers when possible. Or hope for a skyfire nexus to show up on mysterious objectives

This is again only possible for those assault models that CAN shoot. Skyfire nexus are useless if u can't fire a weapon.

[WestRider]

Skyfire Nexus is pretty much useless for Nids anyhow, since only Scoring Units can use one. Only really helps if you've got DakkaFexen in Big Guns Never Tire.

[treadiculous]

Am I right in thinking each Devourer is twin linked.. in which case I can see why 12 TL S6 18" guns are handy against flyers!

..and the fact that on infantry they reduce Ld can't be bad - especially when combined with the Tyrants Psychic choices...

Might have to make the Flyrant the exception to the rule and just model it without the guns (but make it very clear to the opposing player). I feel that the Trygon has a ranged weapon yet it isn't visible on the model so a Flyrant model could do the same thing.

the 1250 point list is now:

Tyrant + Armoured Shell + Old Adversary
Flyrant + Wings + 2 x Devourer + Old Adversary
Tervigon + Catalyst + Adrenal Glands + 10 Gaunts
Tervigon + Catalyst + Adrenal Glands + 10 Gaunts
Tyrgon Prime

It'll look awesome and has a chance it'll perform okay...

I eagerly await my next wages!

[WestRider]

Note that Devourers only reduce Ld for purposes of the Morale Test at the end of the Shooting Phase. There's no boost to Psychic Scream or The Horror, or Pinning Tests, or anything like that

[emptyhat]

Magnetise the guy, that way you can always switch the arms if your opponent is being testy.