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Post by thefishki345 on Apr 26, 2007 5:02:38 GMT -5
uh, dont terminators have 2 wounds?
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Apr 26, 2007 5:34:13 GMT -5
Since when? As long as I'm playing they always had just one. They're "normal troops". There are few multi wound troops that are not any sort of characters
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Post by thefishki345 on Apr 26, 2007 5:45:10 GMT -5
oh ok
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Post by Warmaster Stabwhiskers on Apr 29, 2007 1:04:35 GMT -5
Except for that ''Heroic Stand'' thingy, termies get 3wounds and t6 .....
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Post by thefishki345 on Apr 29, 2007 3:00:05 GMT -5
OH CRAP!
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2007 7:27:06 GMT -5
if u guys type lasgun on wikipedia...it'll give u some pretty awesome detail of what this baby can do to a normal human...the "flashlight" nickname for the lasgun is given because laser weaponry is quite strong...except the only exception is that their are stronger armour/alien carapace/power armour/terminator armour and other armour throughout the entire universe that make the lasgun seem to 'bounce off'/'refelct' off their stuff, thus rendering it useless to a single guardsmen which is why u then use them enmasse to maximize damage effects
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2007 14:32:49 GMT -5
Wait, hold on a second, am i reading somthing wrong or is it that lasguns can't harm anyhting that has a toughness equal or LOWER to it's strength?
This is never come up in my playing seeing as i always play SM, tau, and chaos
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2007 12:54:48 GMT -5
they can harm things with a lower toughness then their strenght,i don't see why they shouldn't be able to.The only thing i can think of that has a lower toughness is grots and maybe scarabs although i'm not too sure about the scarabs.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2007 5:53:38 GMT -5
Doesn't it jsut change the to wound roll?
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Post by fatuous on May 31, 2007 10:28:21 GMT -5
If I read it right he was just joking about not killing any thing with lower T, and the irony of seeing DPs, Fex's, etc.... dropping to them. But I could be wrong.
Lasguns and the IG are all supposed to be quite hard core, but not in comparison to the other tougher races like SMs and bolt guns.
I always find it funny that the uber rare SMs are prob the most popular army, but IG supposedly the most plentiful in the universe are reletively under used. guess it's cos u don't need as many SM and peeps like having uber doods.
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Post by Woz on May 31, 2007 16:03:46 GMT -5
And it's easy to win with smurfs but IG are a challenge.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on May 31, 2007 17:23:15 GMT -5
I wish they could find a way to make IG sell waay more so that the ratio of guard to marine armies was put a little more into balance, but I guess I'm lucky in that there's a half a dozen guard commanders in the area where I live
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2007 18:33:29 GMT -5
What do you mean, i personally love being the "underdog" and "minority" persay, so when i play smurfs, tau, eldar all the popular armies, and they say "Phht, Imperial Guard, this'll be quick" (which has happened to me ) it makes the victory all the more sweet ;D.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 1, 2007 0:25:18 GMT -5
I absolutely agree, but there's nothing more satisfying than a guard v guard slugfest - omgosh so fun!
just had a thought - make a 'fluffy' league - make a roster with slots to be filled by people with different armies: 10 IG slots, 1 SM slot, 1 eldar slot, 3 orc slots, 4 nid slots, 1 dark eldar slot, 2 or 3 tau slots.
could even hold tourneys to see who got to fill the slot in the league or something.
just a thought though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2007 10:22:08 GMT -5
i think that people see the smurfs with their better BS/WS/saves and say OH YEA, i want to collect them.They don't have ot do as much painting to have an army ready,heck they don't have to really know how to play much to use them, just throw them out there, and hope you roll well. with the guard it's totally oposite.Yuck, they have a terrable BS/WS/save and look how many i have to make/paint to play.Then when they get housed by some one that knows I.G. they start to change their toons.
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Post by Warmaster Stabwhiskers on Jun 1, 2007 10:38:18 GMT -5
Commander Hakuro to Turtleboy, Fishki, LordCastellanJon, Woz, Billyboy, trooper249, found, Hengeist, Fatuous and the rest of ya. No retreat, no surrender, that...is Guardsmen protocal .... AND BY THE IMPERIUM...WE WILL STAND AND FIGHT....And die....No matter our numbers....no matter our arnaments.....we still hold in us...OUR COURAGE....OUR HONOUR...OUR DUTY AND GLORY. SO....THIS IS WHERE WE HOLD THEM....THIS...IS WHERE WE FIGHT.....THIS...IS WHERE THEY DIE!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2007 15:54:48 GMT -5
i think that people see the smurfs with their better BS/WS/saves and say OH YEA, i want to collect them.They don't have ot do as much painting to have an army ready,heck they don't have to really know how to play much to use them, just throw them out there, and hope you roll well. with the guard it's totally oposite.Yuck, they have a terrable BS/WS/save and look how many i have to make/paint to play.Then when they get housed by some one that knows I.G. they start to change their toons. I have loved guard scince i looked at them, they were my first and favortie army, and will always be my favorite, i love the mass amounts of guardsmen cahrging, being pushed forward by commissars completly out of there mind when it comes to retreat, and then blowing the hell out of even the toughest of power armor with my tanks and basalisk.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 1, 2007 17:59:31 GMT -5
I feel bad - this thread is about heavy weapon teams, and I'm doing nothing to keep it on topic. in fact, I'm leading it further afield! so then *cough* um...heavy weapon crews....right... I've been tossing around an idea to strip them out of my line squads and put them into the command platoon and maybe even take heavy weapon platoons if I need to - it's apart of my 'sneakysneaky compressedtoiletpaperflak jacket wearing infantry of objective capturing DOOM' strategy.
the idea being that I've found my enemies typically shoot at my squads of infantry based on what heavy weapon is in the squad. this leaves it to be reasoned that if there simply wasn't a heavy weapon in the squad, the squad would receive far less fire. the heavy weapon squads and tanks would receive the brunt of the enemies bombardment which would free up my light infantry to move forward on a boot and a prayer (since we all know how awesome guard armor saves in the open are!!) and try to make it to the objectives.
I could see this going one of two ways - either the enemy sees my ploy and slaughters my infantry wholesale (bad) which leaves my long range armada of guns plenty of time to blow the crud out of anything downrange (possibly good, but who's to say the enemy assault elements will stop to shoot up my infantry - they'll be in the open and thus reallyreally dead). the other scenario is that the enemy goes for my tanks and heavy weapon squads and my infantry can sneak in and capture the objectives (hoping the objectives are in cover but knowing my luck, probably not) with enough force to hold them till the battle ends.
thoughts on working heavy weapons this way? (admittedly the infantry side of the idea sounds pretty flawed vs up-armoring them all to carapace armor but gotta stay on topic with the heavy weapon team theme)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2007 18:16:24 GMT -5
Yes back to the topic
When i play i NEVER, NEVER EVER, put any heavy weapons in my squads. Unless it's a havy bolter, but even this is a maybe, for the simple fact many of the time my guard are on the move, and this means i can't shoot, when i put them in my HQ, they can sit in a nice postition and SUPPORT my charging guard instead of just hindering them.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 1, 2007 18:27:32 GMT -5
how's that work for you? do you have a strong hq platoon with alot of heavy weapon squads or do you just rely on your armor for heavy weapon support?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2007 19:17:13 GMT -5
Well atm my army is as this
i have a powerful Hq in the means of CC, the rest of my HQ is fire support/anti tank with a commissar to ensure no retreat. I only have about 40 guardsmen, 20 in each platoon, i use light infantry so my army all infaltrates, i will also have snipers in eash squad and i have a 5 squad of rattlings, so with the guard set up on the line, they are what hold the enemy back with pinning and suicide CC charges. While the army is totally confused and getting stuck, my heavy wepons platforms, and my two leman russ battle tanks and my basilisk pound the enemy hard. This works extremly well for me, but i does kinda rely alot on them getting pined, which when playing smurfs/deamonhunters/chaos and any other high armor/leadership armies is a little tough, but for the most part this works well, and let me say, a well placed basilisk shot can wipe a whole squad of smurfs clean off the board, so the platforms are a big necesity for me at least.
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Post by fatuous on Jun 2, 2007 10:00:24 GMT -5
OK, back on topic reg HW teams.
Personnally I think there are plenty of slots open in the command platoon for all your heavy weapon needs, unless you are well in to special weapons and sentinels.
My preference for adding HW squads to the CP instead of taking HW platoons is 3 fold.
First, I have a lisk, an exterminator and russ, and often field all of them, so a HWP just won't fit.
Second, I'm often a bit stuck what to do with all the CS from my platoons any way. I'm getting a better idea with how to use them, but an additional one is points I don't want to spend (and another unit to build and paint).
Thirdly and most importantly it's in the set up. Heavies go down first, which can be good for setting up ur HWs, but if they are in the CP then they are placed nearer the end, so you can maximise their lines of fire by placing them down after they have targets.
I've started taking the light inf doc, as I want my HWs set up so they can fire from the start. 1 of my more scrupulous opponents has started to position the scenery so that isn't possible, so infiltrating them in at the very end, maximises their potential for targets and firing positions.
Reg HW squads or in inf squads. I tend to take a mix. HWs in squads are pretty cheap, so often worth taking, even if you intend to move them. Adding a heavy bolter is cheap and adds a lot of fire power even if it doesn't start firing till turn 3, plus they still ahve the lasguns. I do like having some cheaper squads with out heavies as well, that will move every turn to advance, assault and tie up enemies, or get in to rapid fire range.
Conclusions
Heavies in CP > heavy weapon platoons heavy weapon squads are well worth it heavies in inf squads work depending what u want to do. I only ever take heavy bolters or autocannons in onf squads as they get multiple shots.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2007 21:34:43 GMT -5
Fire support squads....hmm...you gotta love em right? i have two fire support squads armed with heavy bolters and two anti tank squads armed with missile launchers and all 4 squads are sharpshooters. Plus i hav a tolled up CP fer cc and so right now...my HQ is around 500 points...which does seem pretty xpensive...however, my 2 platoons of 2 squads each only cost 320 points, add some plasmaguns and i still have enough to field at least one more unit of IG into a 1000 point game...
Heavy weapon squads provide cover fire, whilst my guardsmen either stand and shoot...or advance upfield to gain the offensive......fatuous, ure rite...they are worth it
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 9, 2007 4:35:41 GMT -5
I wish that heavy weapon squads a ) weren't so fragile, and b ) didn't need to be babysat by a command squad. seriously, a platoon command squad isn't enough to hold these squads on the table; they get shot up so readily that they'll quickly fail a Ld8 check. it almost feels mandatory to keep the standard within a stones throw of your heavy weapon squad firebase so that they don't turn and book it the first time they sack a leadership (which is often in round 1 or 2). these squads are tough to lose for the amount of points they cost to field and their tendency to sit near the rear table edge. makes me consider going back to a heroic senior officer w/ master vox, standard, and mortar crew.
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Post by fatuous on Jun 11, 2007 5:14:20 GMT -5
It is all a question of balance. My HW squads often get targeted, but in cover they can take a bit of punishment.
A few ways to increase they're survival rate.
Give light inf, so u can deffo get em in cover, don't go too far forward, but this is great for getting them in to position.
Deffo keep ur HSO near by to use his LD. it is a pity that HW squads can't have a vox.
Chem inhalers. If they fail a 25% morale, at least they don't run off the table (admittedly, the last 2 games I have forgotten this extra rule lo).
Do also add HWs to some squads. Something juicy like a missile launcher is a good one to take, as it can cause serious damage if they ignore it, and may well distract fire form the HW squads.
Generally I find a mix of HW in inf squad and a couple of HW squads work out quite well.
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