New to 40k and new to the guard.. confused

[Deleted]

Hi there,

A friend of me has bought the battle for macragge starterset and we have played through the scenarios there. He loves playing the nids, but I did not really like the space marines that much. Looking around on the net and in stores, the imperial guard catched my eye. I really like the cadian models and the fact that they are real human beeings and look that way too.

So, I have picked up the codex and read through it. What overwhelmes me is all the opportunities and different possibilities for the army. By reading it thouroughly and going through this forum I think i have understood the basics of the platoons and HQ and so on, but what trubbles me is the next step. What are my tactical options. I do not want an all static army where all is lost if the enemy ever reaches my lines. However, if I not wanted any static elements, the guard would probably been a bad choice. What I want is a static center with movable elements on the flanks, maybe even some squads for dropping. Is this possible? At the present time I am thinking one infantry platoon with granade launchers, missile launchers and autocannons. One armoured fist (special weapons?) one unit of stormtroopers in a transport and a veteran squad. Maybe a special weapons squad or two to be dropped near the enemy. What do you think, and what special and heavy weapon should I choose??

Ashford

[thefishki345]

hi there, welcome to the board and guard,

first of, ok so you want a balanced army which is good at static but still alright at close combat and still manouverable?

this can be achieved by having say:

1 platoon of normal troops, grenade launchers

1/2x armoured fist squads, flamers

and then anti tank suppourt and fire suppourt squads added on to your hq, or you can put them in your squads for more protection.

then you have your:

stormtroopers: putting them in a transport is alright, but deepstriking them is much better, therefore you can do some nasty things to your enemy, i once took out a rhino with a stormtroopers flamer.

veteran squads: veteran squads are great, i havent used them but they seem good, they would be good if you put grenade launchers in your platoon squads then 3 flamers in your hardened veteran squads to balance it up.

what i do is put flamers in all my infantry squads except for 1 which has a grenade launcher.

if you seem to think i know what im doing i dont because this is coming from a guy who has only played 5 games, 2 with guard! and both of them resulted in a loss.

this information i have is gathered from logic and tips from this message board.

good luck and sorry about writing so much.

[Warmaster Stabwhiskers]

Sounds good, if your keen on defensive manevoures, i suggest you back up your line with missile launchers / autocannons. Whilst your stormtroopers can infiltrate or deepstrike, make sure your guardsmen have an adequate supply of firepower, special weapon squads might not be as good as you think, anyways, deepstrike the stormies wif a meltagun and a grenade launcher / plasma gun and that should do the trick. And abt the chimera. im in it for the armoured fist squad, but as for the stormtroopers, its just a waste, since they themselves have striking options. Arm the veteran squad with a melta, plasma and a flamer / grenade launcher and a las/auto hw. As for ranting...my apologies and hope to see you on the front soon ashford! May the light of the Emperor guide you.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

ashford said:

Maybe a special weapons squad or two to be dropped near the enemy

*beepwhirrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRclick*
what was that sound?
*looks around*
oh just private higgins priming the demo charge...

[fatuous]

Lol, you can't beat a well placed demo charge .

Ashford, it sounds like you have the right idea.

If you want to drop troops in, then you either need Storm troopers or you can take the Drop Troop doctrine giving the option to drop your entire army in.

I'd prob start off with some storm troopers to give u the idea, and if you find it useful, think about the drop troop regiment idea. I suspect you'll find the stormies enough tbh.

The best all round special weapon IMO is the nade launcher, and you get these in the infantry platoon boxed set.

I almost always use the krak nades, the frags are less useful. It has the biggest range (plasma can fire as far, but only if you don't move), and it doesn't kill your own guys.

It isn't specialised at 1 thing, so as a start, I think they would be a good option for you to try. Don't get me wrong, the other special weapons are great, but all have more specialised roles and draw backs. (plasma is powerful, but can kill ur own men, meltas are very powerful, but close range, flamers don't role to hit, but u have to be nose to nose to use them ).

Heavy weapons. I love Autocannons atm. Multiple shots (very useful for imp guard), reasonable strength, instant death to any T3 characters. Good for shooting up units of troops or light vehicles. Depending on what race ur playing, you will probably want some lascannons too. You may not take them every game, but they're deffo an option you will want. Missile launchers are more versatile, and cheaper, but when facing a Land Raider for example, you really want the lascannons (or melta guns).

If you want to start an IG army, I'd probably start off by building up a squad of 10 guys in a chimera (Amoured personnel carrier). You are going to need a lot of standard guardsmen (unless u go with the grenadier option), so 10 is a reasonable number to start building and painting. Tanks are just cool, and the chimera is a nice looking one, so 10 guys and the APC will be an interesting start to the IG.

I don't know what the points of the Battle of Mac-whatsis armies is, but an armoured fist squad would be under 200 points, half of what u will need for a combat patrol.

Building on to that, you'll need more 10 man squads for platoons, command sqauds, and some heavy weapons. In a 1000 point army, you can expect to field 2 platoons of 25 guys (or 1 platoon and ur armoured fist squad), a command platoon with some heavy weapons, and a tank.

Bit of a long post. The only other alternative I can think of atm is drop the tank idea and go for sentinels. Again, these look cool, and can be pretty powerful, so you could go for a platoon of guys and a squad of sentinels as a starting point.

[Warmaster Stabwhiskers]

like what fatuous said, use infantry and sentinels at the moment, use the sentinels to draw enemy attention and use Sneak - Hit - Run tactics, then when he sends troops or light armour, wipe them out with a little precision firing and nades and heavy weapons from your infantry platoon

[Deleted]

for flanking i would suggest getting a hellhound.The points are cheap enough and the weapon and armour it has are great.Combine it with an armoured fist squad and you should be able to roll up their flanks pretty easy.

[fatuous]

Hellhounds are very cool, and while I would deffo suggest getting 1, you can't use them in a combat patrol cos the armour is too high.

If you want to get in to playing, I think it is better to focus on gettings things you can start playing with straight away.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

with the guard there are really two arenas: light arms and heavy weapons. a guard commander must have the abilty to put up a wall of las-death powerful enough (in theory) to stop an enemy that is encroaching on imperial battle lines. lets ignore the faults in this theory for now, but just imagine that you had an overly healthy supply of light arms fire on the field.

where light arms fail, is when armor surfaces. from armors beginning, it was designed to defeat light arms fire, and in 40k, and especially the guard, light arms fire is worthless against any form of armor. enter heavy weaponry. it is said that the guard can field the most massive array of heavy weaponry in the entire imperium, and while this is true, the guard realizes the limits of heavy weaponry. let me explain...

let us take our standard battlefield; some cover to occupy so that our men can withstand a bit of punishment exists, so we fortify it with some light infantry to build our small arms presence, and add some resilience to the fortification being charged and assaulted. next we move in some heavy weapon teams to cover the anti-armor role. we have reached a limit at this point. we have established a shooty fortification known as a firebase. the reason it's called a base is that it is incapable of movement. move the squads and they go into the open and die in droves if the enemy is near (due to no armor saves). this means that while we DO have the ability to field a massive array of both light arms AND heavy weaponry, we are often reduced to defending from firebase type positions.

if we look downrange from our firebase, we find lets say a tree line (a common site on the battlefield). the enemy is hiding behind the treeline and using it as cover. this enables them to snipe on our lines and firebases with impunity and little risk of massed return fire due to their position (trees shielding them completely from the wrath of 75% of the arsenel we have deployed in our lines and firebases across our front).

how do we defeat this problem?

enter imperial armor.

imperial armor is important for two reasons:

first off, it can move from cover and rely on (in the case of leman russes) it's insanely thick armor plating to survive any negative attention it might attract.

second, it's mobile and able to constantly adjust its kill zone to counter our enemies trying to exploit things like building ruins and tree lines to negate the wrath of our heavy weapon arsenal.

third, nothing says 'I love you' like a battlecannon shell in the face! of all the heavy weapons in the Imperial Guard, the battlecannon is probably the most powerful. it puts a lascannons range to shame while losing only a fraction of the overall power but detonates an entire city block when the round hits AND turns powerarmor into kibble AND does bad things to armored targets that it hits - beyond that, if the enemy armor you're firing on is carrying troops...well...just pray for that 6 on the penetrating table!

so you see the value of the standard issue leman russ battle tank now, but let it not diminish the value of your light infantry holding the line and keeping all the maniacs with meltabombs away from the tank!

ofcourse, there are many tanks which all have different specializations in the guard - from the squad killing hellhound which allows you to grin with glee as you say 'oh, so sad, no coversaves for YOUR ENTIRE SQUAD! ...2+ to kill now' to the demolisher which is just instant death for teleporting terminators.

anyhow - balance light arms and heavy weapons, but remember your ability to manoeuver because a fully static approach to 40k will lead to a battle which is much akin to buzzards picking at a dying corpse that just lays there.

good luck!

[fatuous]

V good points, well worth listening to. When I started I relied far too heavily on static fire bases, and while being defensive has it's role to play in your stratergy, it's can't be THE stratergy.

Having said tat, I play against orks and nids a fair amount, so why give em another turn in CC with ya .

[Deleted]

i could not have said it any better turtleboy.You really have a great grasp on the game and tactics for the I.G. It is really refreshing to see you put it this way without the arrogence you get from some players you talk to about tactics and things( no one on this board is like that but i'm sure you have met people at local shops like that).

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

thanks bud - I really feel like I'm still a noob when it comes to some of this stuff too .. one of the nice things about 40k, you can play for years and still have tons to learn. what other game will make you go buy books like sun tzus art of war and rommels infantry attacks and study them because they actually apply to your gaming skills and ability to command and win battles on the tabletop. 40k is like chess on steroids hehe.

[Colonel Grammissar Azalar]

Hmm. The board seems to have some new Features, does that mean new mods?

Also, I said this in tips for colleting guard, It wont be long till I finished my Overview documents, then you can look at them when you need help with the guard, it will contain Ranks, Weapons, Vehicels, Wargear and possibile Doctrines, Alternate Orgnisations, and Known Regiments.

[Warmaster Stabwhiskers]

Wait turtleboy....you know sun tzu's art of war ? How de? Wait a sec....i thought i was the only asian strategist here?

[Colonel Grammissar Azalar]

Isnt Sun Tzu An Oriental?

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

Sun Tzu lived during the time when China was born. in the 'old days' before china was a nation, it was a collection of kingdoms. these kingdoms were constantly in a state of war, trying to overcome eachother with the eventual goal of controlling all the kingdoms. Sun Tzu was a strategist/tactician employed by one of the kingdoms who was so wise in advising the generals of his kingdom that they were able to realize the dream of controlling all the kingdoms in the area - and thus was born China.

[Warmaster Stabwhiskers]

When you refer to the "Old Days" you refer to the Period of the Waring States. During this time, yes, China was divided and powerful warlords sought
to conquer China, the only vital thing they lacked was strategy, and unification until Qin Shi Huang came around and began his diplomatic expansion across China. Thus, being a Chinese, Im proud to say that I have 5000 years of heritage and culture behind me ^^ . And im amazed, TB how you would know about such things...Im impressed at your findings!

[Deleted]

5000 years, thats impressive, i've only got about 200 years under my belt

[Warmaster Stabwhiskers]

Im proud of my race ^^ ;D

[Warmaster Stabwhiskers]

Not to mention WE were the first to invent gunpowder!