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Post by brocchus on Mar 28, 2013 14:34:53 GMT -5
Hail, Guardsmen. I'm a long time Warhammer player and just started an Imperial Guard army. I could use some help with my purchasing strategy. My goal is to have an army of 2000 points by November. I spend roughly $100-130 a month, up to about $180. I play with friends, no tournaments, but I expect it to be competitive (in a good way) because one is a former GM of a GW store (Nurgle Chaos Daemons), and another a Grand Tournament winner (Space Wolves, Eldar, Harlequins, Dark Eldar). Both of them are smart, aggressive players but thankfully neither has played since 4th Edition.
Here's what I have so far:
CCS 4x plasma, Chimera ML/HF
Meltavets w/shotguns, Chimera ML/HF
Plasmavets, Chimera ML/HF
Vendetta w/ HB
There's some other unassembled stuff like 3x heavy weapon squads, a sentinel, about ten assorted guardsmen and a good amount of special weapons from 3 Cadian Command sets (no more melta or plasma, alas).
I am not sure how to move forward with this army and how to prioritize my purchases. I was going for a mechanized/air assault army with a mobile battle doctrine (move fast, get close, blast them in the face) but I need at least one platoon of regular infantry in order to purchase precious Special Weapon flamer squads for my Vendettas.
HQ- Another CCS w/ 4x plasma and Chimera seems the best choice along with some Regimental Advisors. Not a huge priority because it galls me to shell out around $30 for the plasma bits.
Core- I am guessing many of you will cry out "More troops!" after looking at what I have. My infantry is modified with Maxmini guardsman backpacks and Kolony Militia heads with Kolony HQ heads for sergeants and officers. I am using Desert Wasteland bases painted from Secret Weapon painted in the classic Gorkamorka scheme which will eventually be used for my terrain and table. Unfortunately, my Veterans were more expensive and took a lot longer to assemble than I imagined.
Good grief Veterans are expensive to put together when you factor in that every melta/plasma costs me another $20 Company Command Squad (the individual bits aren’t much cheaper). Then there’s the Chimeras to consider. That said, I could probably use at least one more squad each of mechanized plasma meltavets. Ideally two more of each. I am wary of deploying Vets in Vendettas because it makes the unit very expensive and losing one would hurt.
Special Weapon Squads. Love ‘em. With flamers they are so cheap, stick ‘em in a Vendetta and have fun. If a couple die when grav-chuting, who cares? Even if the Vendetta goes down in flames it’s only a few extra points. I have two complaints- I have to buy an entire platoon to purchase them, and I only get two with that.
Then there are the regular Infantry squads to consider. Is it wise to deploy regular GL/AC Infantry in Chimeras with the PCS in a Vendetta? It seems smarter (yet straying from with my army theme) to deploy them in a blob firebase backed by a PCS w/ 4x flamers and maybe a commissar, allowing to take full advantage of orders. It's a lot of points for something that's just going to sit there waiting to get slaughtered by fast close combat troops. Although a firebase or, worse, a powersword/Commisar blob doesn't really fit with how I envisioned my army when I started this project I do want it to be competitive.
Fast Attack- This is my favorite section. Hellhounds sound like a lot of fun and work with my "get in their face and shoot it" playstyle. Plus the weapons seem relatively easy to magnetize so all options are available. Having that flexibility is very important to me so I would like to hear from people who have done it.
Vendettas, what’s not to like? Right now two seems good, with or without a flamer SWS.
Heavy Support- Tanks are problematic because I don't know what to put in the side sponsons, if any. I do not want to assemble a tank and find that my weapon options are a poor choice. I like the Demolisher best because it suits my playstyle of get close and blast away.
Are Hydras obligatory in 6th? They look decent enough and are cheap as chips pointwise.
Artillery doesn’t really turn me on but if I need it to be competitive do let me know.
Elites- Not relevant to my interests. Even if Ogryns and Ratlings were statistically good units (which they aren’t) I wouldn’t use them because 1) I think they are goofy and 2) my unit believes the only good mutant is a dying one who tells you where his mates are. No abhumans.
Storm Troopers offer a fun modeling and painting project but they are insanely expensive. I wouldn’t use them.
The point of all of this is to get an idea of what purchases I should be prioritizing. Any and all input is appreciated. Thank you for reading my post.
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Post by brocchus on Mar 28, 2013 15:11:38 GMT -5
Addendum: The Aegis Defense Line seems like a great buy for the points when you consider the benefits to a "firebase" type platoon but I have one major problem with fortifications- you have to deploy them -before- terrain is set up. That sounds insane, as your opponent can simply place a large hill or ruin right in front of it. Does anyone have some experience with this?
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Post by commisarblur on Mar 28, 2013 15:25:42 GMT -5
Usually terrain is set up before deploy so you don't have to worry about ppl putting hills in front of your aegis.
Your list is good but from recent experiance I say cut down the number of vets fielded to around two squads and have a large backing of infantry platoons with plenty of heavy support choices.
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Post by brocchus on Mar 28, 2013 15:47:09 GMT -5
So the 6th edition competitive IG strat is big blobs of firebase infantry (GL, AC) camping objectives and big blobs of Comissar-led infantry (powerswords) moving to objectives, all backed by armor? I guess I can do that. Doesn't sound as cool as plasma and melta vets rolling around in Chimeras melting faces but I admit the Chimera seems really easy to take out. On that note, what do you guys use to represent wrecks?
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Post by macknight on Mar 28, 2013 17:57:12 GMT -5
Buying strategy: leman russ(you can model all the accessories but the sponsons, hull HB or LC, the new models are a snug fit for those gun mounts, so no GLUING)
demolisher with flamer sponsons(again the gun mounts are snug fit, so no GLUING)
Make a platoon of what you have in mind, then a CCS with a LC, vox, flag to issue orders.
AC or MLaser on the sentinel is a safe build. You should make a Marbo out of your left over guardsman too, check out the thread with all the marbo from the board!
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Post by brocchus on Mar 28, 2013 18:36:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice! demolisher with flamer sponsons(again the gun mounts are snug fit, so no GLUING) Why Heavy Flamers? To deter assaults with overwatch fire? Make a platoon of what you have in mind, then a CCS with a LC, vox, flag to issue orders. It's hard to give up the firepower of 4x plasma on a CCS! AC or MLaser on the sentinel is a safe build.. I was going to put AC on my armored Sentinels. A pity they are so expensive and fragile compared to an Infantry Squad with GL and AC, the models look nice and I am going to end up with at least two or three. A Marine Sergeant can pop one with his powerfist without breaking a sweat.  You should make a Marbo out of your left over guardsman too Alas, my gaming group has a "no special characters" rule. It doesn't prevent us from using the models, of course. |
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Post by macknight on Mar 28, 2013 20:20:52 GMT -5
You can make the marbo model and use it as your demolition guy in your melta vets.
You can have 2 CCS, 1 as your assaulting commander(2iC) chimera with plasma guns, the other as your defending commander issuing orders, IG orders are quite good, so use them. The Master of Ordinance is supposedly quite good in this edition if you choose to play with some arty.
Stay away from Armored sentinel, they have lost their use of tying up units in CC, go with scout sentinels and either keep them cheap or put HK missiles on them for shock flanking attacks. (all MLasers, 2 AC and HF with HK missiles)
The sponsons on the demolisher should be cheap, so either HF or HB.
If you have left over HWT, you can make them all LC, with the order that makes them twinlink, they are quite good at killing tanks. Anything but the HB is useful.
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Post by brocchus on Mar 29, 2013 13:17:14 GMT -5
You can have 2 CCS, 1 as your assaulting commander(2iC) chimera with plasma guns, the other as your defending commander issuing orders, IG orders are quite good, so use them. The Master of Ordinance is supposedly quite good in this edition if you choose to play with some arty. If I used a stationary CCS camping the backfield backing a blob of Infantry, I might use the Master of Ordinance purely for fun. He costs as much as 2 plasma guns and I get to put on my troll face when I place the template. I am still not sold on Vox-casters or Regimental Standards. Care to enlighten me? Stay away from Armored sentinel, they have lost their use of tying up units in CC I agree that Armored Sentinels suck. I just like the way they look and consider them a rainy-day painting project when I am sick of painting infantry. On the other hand, I don't like the way unarmored Sentinels look and I wouldn't use them even if they were great. The sponsons on the demolisher should be cheap, so either HF or HB. Understood. If you have left over HWT, you can make them all LC, with the order that makes them twinlink, they are quite good at killing tanks. I like the idea of independent HWT teams but they just seem so easy to kill off. |
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Post by commisarblur on Mar 29, 2013 16:20:30 GMT -5
Well first off don't use the master of ordance. Even on direct hits the die scatters.
The idea of two CCS does have appeal. One to stay behind to order/man the Quad gun and one to act as a strike force with a blob of guardsmen.
If your worried about your HWTs, that's what Gunlines are for.
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Post by WestRider on Mar 29, 2013 17:58:55 GMT -5
Mechanized Platoons can work just fine, either as a firebase with the Chimerae tossing out extra shots along with the AC/GL or doing something like Outflanking with El'Rahemo. The PCS can either get a Chimera themselves or sub in for one of the SWSs in the Vendettas.
Unless you're running an Infantry Firebase (which is a strong build, but not necessary), you're not actually going to get much use out of Orders with a list like this, since you can't issue them until your dudes Disembark, and you don't usually want to be doing that until either the Game's pretty much sorted and it's just a matter of jumping on Objectives or it's down to Do or Die.
A Primaris Psyker running Telepathy can actually be a pretty good addition to an Army like this. Four of the five Powers he can get on that table are good for a List like this, and two of them (including the Primaris) can be used from a Chimera.
Unless you have the same distaste for Psykers that you have for Abhumans, of course. If you are accepting of the, the Psyker Battle Squad is worth looking at, too, tho I would Convert from something else as the actual Models are expensive and kind of bad. Don't bother mounting them up, just hide them behind the other Vehicles and have one poke his head out to use their Powers.
The regular Leman Russ and Demolisher should only ever have Heavy Bolters in the Hull Mount and Sponsons, if anything. This is likely to change again in future Editions, but for now, it's the way to go. You want Sponsons because Weapon Destroyed results are randomized, so they halve the chance of losing your Turret, but Heavy Flamers can't Snap-Fire, and the other options are too expensive.
Actually, the only variant that's really an exception to that and worth taking is an Executioner with Plasma Sponsons. Risky because of Gets Hot, but the damage it can do to clumped Units is insane.
For this Army, tho, what I'd really be looking for from Heavy Support is something with Barrage. In 6th Ed, it's a lot easier than previously to camp Objectives out of LoS, and even Mech Armies can have trouble really digging those last guys out. Something like a Manticore or a Girffon or two can really help you reach out and touch someone.
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Post by brocchus on Apr 1, 2013 18:46:29 GMT -5
Mechanized Platoons can work just fine, either as a firebase with the Chimerae tossing out extra shots along with the AC/GL or doing something like Outflanking with El'Rahemo. The PCS can either get a Chimera themselves or sub in for one of the SWSs in the Vendettas. This was my original plan. It is good to know that Infantry Squads mounted in Chimeras are a viable, competitive option. I was planning to put the PCS w/flamer x4 in the Vendetta since the mechanized Infantry can't take much advantage of orders. A Primaris Psyker running Telepathy can actually be a pretty good addition to an Army like this. Four of the five Powers he can get on that table are good for a List like this, and two of them (including the Primaris) can be used from a Chimera. To be honest the only HQ options I have seriously considered are CCS w/plasma x4 and a Lord Commissar. Partly because the psyker models are just awful and partly because I assumed he had to be deployed with an Infantry blob to mazimize his effectiveness. Thank you for clarifying. Unless you have the same distaste for Psykers that you have for Abhumans, of course. If you are accepting of the, the Psyker Battle Squad is worth looking at, too, tho I would Convert from something else as the actual Models are expensive and kind of bad. Don't bother mounting them up, just hide them behind the other Vehicles and have one poke his head out to use their Powers. Nah, even the Emperor himself was a psyker so my dudes are cool with it. Like you said, the models are just awful and I have not figured a good way to make my own. I'll consider it as an option now, thanks! The regular Leman Russ and Demolisher should only ever have Heavy Bolters in the Hull Mount and Sponsons, if anything. This is likely to change again in future Editions, but for now, it's the way to go. You want Sponsons because Weapon Destroyed results are randomized, so they halve the chance of losing your Turret, but Heavy Flamers can't Snap-Fire, and the other options are too expensive. Heavy bolters all-round! Thank you, this decision has made me hold back from buying tanks. I will get a Demolisher, LRBT, and Executioner. Actually, the only variant that's really an exception to that and worth taking is an Executioner with Plasma Sponsons. Risky because of Gets Hot, but the damage it can do to clumped Units is insane. The model looks great and works with my army thematically (lots of plasma) but I wondered if it was too expensive and, like you said risky. Now that I know it is a viable choice I plan to pick one up. For this Army, tho, what I'd really be looking for from Heavy Support is something with Barrage. In 6th Ed, it's a lot easier than previously to camp Objectives out of LoS, and even Mech Armies can have trouble really digging those last guys out. Something like a Manticore or a Girffon or two can really help you reach out and touch someone. I don't care for the Manticore and Griffon models but your advice is sound. I'll pick up one of each and go from there, although I am guessing they work better in pairs or threesomes. |
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Post by macknight on Apr 1, 2013 19:25:28 GMT -5
Manticore cannot be squadroned, so DO NOT get 3 unless you want to use all 3 of your heavy slots or intend to play in a bigger game.
There was a post around saying the Master of Ordinance is a much better option in this edition due to the core rule change, I don't remember the exact details.
The griffon is a very affordable and quality piece of arty, but the actual model is discontinued or through FW, finding them on ebay is hard and pricy. The basilisk conversions that I've seen are crap.
The vox on the CCS are to help with the orders, the model can be used as a regular guardsmen. The flag is there for presentation, every regiment should have a standard!
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Post by WestRider on Apr 1, 2013 19:27:01 GMT -5
If you like the Model better, the Basilisk is also decent, and it is better at taking out Power Armoured Units, but I find the Re-rolls on the Girffon and the multiple Blasts of the Manticore give them an edge over it, even without AP3.
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Post by brocchus on Apr 1, 2013 19:44:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll buy a couple more Vet Squads, an Infantry platoon, Chimeras, then fill out my armor with Demolisher, LRBT and Executioner, then add some Griffons and a Manticore. Somewhere along the line I need Hydras, another Vendetta, and a Hellhound(s). I have until November to buy all this and get it assembled. Good grief. So back to the original question, how should I prioritize this stuff? I will eventually have it all but I have to put some stuff before others simply because I am on a timeline of sorts. Thanks
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Post by WestRider on Apr 1, 2013 21:26:01 GMT -5
I would expand your Troops first. 5 times out of 6, having Scoring Models on Objectives at the end of the Game is what wins Games for you.
Second Vendetta is also pretty high on the list, but I think Troops need to come first. You're about to start edging up into Points Values where 20 Guardsmen, even mounted up, can get shot off the table pretty quickly.
Next in line are probably some Artillery and maybe Hydras, depending on how many Opposing Flyers you find yourself running up against.
1-2 Russes after Artillery, possibly before Hydras.
Hellhound is probably the least important thing on there to pick up your first of.
Finally, once you've got some of everything, fill out your Arty and Russes based on your experience, and you may be up far enough in Points by then that you want still more Troops.
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Post by hendrik on Apr 12, 2013 12:50:32 GMT -5
get a copy of the new imperial armour volume one,second edition. it features a 7" blast S8 AP2 manticore, and they can be squadroned from now on  |
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Post by brocchus on Apr 12, 2013 18:55:26 GMT -5
OK, Monday I am buying an infantry platoon and another couple mounted vet squads. With the third party bits and resin bases, this is getting expensive!
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Post by WestRider on Apr 12, 2013 19:34:10 GMT -5
OK, Monday I am buying an infantry platoon and another couple mounted vet squads. With the third party bits and resin bases, this is getting expensive! There's really no way to put together a good Guard List cheaply. Some ways are cheaper relative to others, but there ain't no Guard Army that can honestly be called "cheap" other than a really lucky second-hand find  |
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Post by brocchus on Apr 12, 2013 20:03:07 GMT -5
I looked into second hand models and really most of those people charge far too much. I think models depreciate 70% when assembled and painted.
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Post by syphon on May 1, 2013 12:36:01 GMT -5
OK, Monday I am buying an infantry platoon and another couple mounted vet squads. With the third party bits and resin bases, this is getting expensive! There's really no way to put together a good Guard List cheaply. Some ways are cheaper relative to others, but there ain't no Guard Army that can honestly be called "cheap" other than a really lucky second-hand find Yes there is. It's commonly referred to as "Anything not Games Workshop." Sad but true. |
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on May 1, 2013 13:27:20 GMT -5
Have you seen the price for green plastic army men these days?
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