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Post by kharneth on Apr 25, 2013 9:12:52 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I have just registered to this board.
A little about me. I've been playing Warhammer on and off (mostly on) for the passed 6 years. I'm currently 21 and in college. I started off with Tyranids in 40k, quickly fell in love with Chaos. Started Fantasy a few years later and currently play World Eaters Chaos Space Marines and Warriors of Chaos Mono-Khorne.
I'm here because I have a pretty clear image of what I want out of an Imperial Guard army, and I mostly want to see if it will be effective enough to be worth it. As a player who, in 40k doesn't use guns and in fantasy doesn't use magic, I am not looking for another uneffective army. All hail the Blood God! But in-game he is not as powerful as GW makes him sound haha.
This is my idea:
I would like to create an Infantry Regiment of Imperial Guard. Not to say there will be no vehicles, but I don't want to be mechanized and I don't want the vehicles to run the show. They will simply be supporting the Infantry. Everything will be supporting the Infantry. With that said, I would like an elite force of Guardsmen (if you can even call them elite). Meaning Veterans and Storm Troopers. I'd prefer a single unit of Storm Troopers, though I will get more if that is better, I will not take less than one unit. I'm thinking tournament sized (1500-2,000). I'd rather not take a giant blob of Guardsmen. I'd like to take the elite selections, such as Vets.
Could this be made into an effective army, or will I be looking at another fun and lackluster army?
In particular, I'd like:
Veterans, Storm Troopers, Snipers, better Snipers, Artillery, a Leman Russ or two. Lots of Elite Infantry. Infiltrating, Parachuting, Holding the Line, etc.
Thank you for reading this far!
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Post by BG. Foster on Apr 25, 2013 9:17:02 GMT -5
You'll want to get with Vets in transports, either Chimera or Valkyries then. Not sure if it will work though as I haven't played in years.
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Post by kharneth on Apr 25, 2013 9:32:09 GMT -5
Would I want all of them in a transport to be effective?
I could put a few units in Chimeras and a few more in a Valkyrie or 2... but I'd really rather not end up going mechanized.
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Post by yvain on Apr 25, 2013 9:50:42 GMT -5
Hi!
This kind of list can be viable. Since guardsmen are so fragile they will never really make it on foot unless you have hordes of conscripts or Infantry squads verse the elite choices. The advantage of Veterans is the 3 SW slots and BS4, but they die quickly even with the Carapace upgrade which is expensive. And you don't want that going to waste dying in the open. You can use Harker or Valkyries to move your guys around (which can parachute in) and the rest hide behind an aegis line. For Heavy Support you have some great options. All the artillery guns except for the deathstrike are pretty awesome. Manticores are almost a must have in my opinion. The Leman Russ is probably the best tank in the game. It has huge gun and lots of armor and well priced. You can have those guys supporting your vets behind the defense line.
The best way to take Snipers is with Ratlings since they get infiltrate and BS 4 for free. I like taking 3 or 5. Because they are so cheap, this is really the only way to take snipers.
Stormtroopers are considered to be over priced. They can be very effective, but eat up points. For most situations, Veterans are the better choice. They are generally taken as a 5 man suicide melta squad, but they can be effective as a full 10 man. You get armor and a AP3 lasgun (still weak toughness) , but what you are really paying extra for is the opportunity to deploy them however you want them. They are not going to always win against MEQs. Basically just make sure you have a goal in mind for them.
Marbo falls under elite infantry so I would add him in there.
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Post by kharneth on Apr 25, 2013 12:30:52 GMT -5
This is helpful. I'm going to check out the codex today and start making a plan with the list. I do hope to incorporate some immobile artillery from Forge World if this is allowed. I have to check the Imperial Armor books and figure out how I'd be able to add them.
I found some nice miniatures online, alternatives to Imperial Guard miniatures.
I'm going to attempt to take a Storm Trooper squad, 2 Sniper squads, 1-2 Leman Russ Battle Tanks, and no BS3 troops in my 1850pt tournament list. There will be more... that I haven't figured out yet.
How many Vet squads should I have? I'm thinking I'd like 2 (maybe 1?) with a heavy weapon to "hold the base". And the other half in chimeras with special weapons to capture forward objectives.
I don't want Marbo, or any special characters.
Can't you make a vet squad or some other squad have all snipers? Maybe a special weapon squad? Or are Ratlings the only way to have a unit of snipers? I was hoping to have ratlings as elite snipers and another more generic sniper squad. Like, no infiltration or any, just guardsmen with snipers.
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Post by kharneth on Apr 25, 2013 17:35:16 GMT -5
Alright... I spent a large part of my day researching the force organization of the Marine Corps and decided I would be able to fit a Rifle Company into my imperial guard force. This army is going to be a US Marine Corps themed Imperial Guard army.
This is my Marine Corps Rifle Company:
Company: Led by Captain, 1st Lieutenant, First Sergeant, and Navy Corpsman
1st Platoon: Led by 2nd Lieutenant, Gunnery Sergeant, and Corpsman 1st Squad – 3 teams of 4 Marines led by a Sergeant 2nd Squad – 3 teams of 4 Marines led by a Sergeant 3rd Squad – 3 teams of 4 Marines led by a Sergeant
2nd Platoon: Led by 2nd Lieutenant, Gunnery Sergeant, and Corpsman 1st Squad – 3 teams of 4 Marines led by a Sergeant 2nd Squad – 3 teams of 4 Marines led by a Sergeant 3rd Squad – 3 teams of 4 Marines led by a Sergeant
Weapons Platoon: Mortar Section – 3 M224 Mortar squads of 3 Marines led by a Staff Sergeant. Gunner, Assistant, Ammunition Man. 3 Marines per squad, 10 per Section. Machine Gun Section – 3 M240G squads of 2 teams of 3 Marines led by Sergeant. Gunner, Assistant, Ammunition Man. 7 Marines per Squad, 21 per Section. Assault Section – 3 Mk-153 SMAW squads of 2 teams of 2 Marines led by a Staff Sergeant. Gunner, Assistant. 4 Marines per squad, 13 per Section.
3rd Platoon: Force Reconnaissance Platoon: Led by 2nd Lieutenant, Gunnery Sergeant, Radio Operator, Navy Corpsman, Platoon Equipment Sergeant. 1st Reconnaissance Team – Led by Staff Sergeant, Sergeant, Radio Operator, 3 Scouts. 2nd Reconnaissance Team – Led by Staff Sergeant, Sergeant, Radio Operator, 3 Scouts. 3rd Reconnaissance Team – Led by Staff Sergeant, Sergeant, Radio Operator, 3 Scouts.
This is, basically, what it will look like from an Imperial Guard perspective:
Company Command Squad
Platoon Command Squad Infantry Squad Infantry Squad Infantry Squad Infantry Squad
Platoon Command Squad Infantry Squad Infantry Squad Infantry Squad Infantry Squad
6 Ratlings 6 Ratlings 6 Storm Troopers
3 Mortars 6 Heavy Bolters 6 Missile Launchers
A Marine Platoon consists of 39 Marines and plus the "Platoon Squad" so I am going to use 4 Infantry Squads to represent this. I will be missing 2 guardsmen total in-game from the beginning, but that's not really an issue.
The 9 Heavy Weapons Teams will be put wherever is most effective. I will probably keep the Mortars as a separate squad so it can stay far away and fire indirectly.
I need to come up with some way of giving the ratlings/STs a platoon command squad. They are a Force Recon Platoon, and are suppose to have a Platoon Staff, like the other 2 Platoons, but I don't know how to incorporate this in the rules.
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Post by kharneth on Apr 25, 2013 18:45:44 GMT -5
I'm sorry for posting over and over... but I'm gathering ideas and leaving them in the open for criticism/advice.
I might have spent too many points on Infantry... but here is my Imperial Guard Marine force: 1253pts
92 - Company Command Squad – Vox Caster, Medi-Pack, Boltgun, Grenade Launcher
500 Total 80 - Platoon Command Squad – Vox Caster, Medi-Pack, Missile Launcher 285 - 4 Infantry Squads – Vox Caster, 4 Missile Launchers, 4 Grenade Launchers 60 - 3 Mortars 75 - 3 Heavy Bolters
220 Total 80 - Platoon Command Squad – Vox Caster, Medi-Pack, Missile Launcher 70 - Infantry Squad – Vox Caster, Heavy Bolter, Grenade Launcher In Chimera 70 - Infantry Squad – Vox Caster, Heavy Bolter, Grenade Launcher In Chimera
200 Total 70 - Platoon Command Squad – Vox Caster, Medi-Pack, Grenade Launcher 70 - Infantry Squad – Vox Caster, Heavy Bolter, Grenade Launcher In Chimera 60 - Infantry Squad – Vox Caster, Grenade Launcher In Valkyrie
241 Total 60 - 6 Ratlings 60 - 6 Ratlings 121 - 6 Storm Troopers – 2 Meltaguns
Alright so, I gave up on the Veteran idea when after realizing I'd need Platoon commanders (Lieutenants and Senior NCOs) for the 3 platoons. I split one of the Platoons so I could purchase a platoon command squad for my ratlings/troopers who are my "Recon Platoon".
There are 2 Rifle Platoons (Infantry Platoons) and a Force Recon Platoon. Everything is by 3s in the Marines, apparently.
I did not add the points of the transports because they will be part of the vehicle companies. I think it will be an armored vehicle company (Chimeras and Leman Russes) and an Aviation attachment (flyers).
How does it look from an Imperial Guard perspective? I could remove the 3rd PCS and make the valkyrie unit a vet squad. I would lose the fluff value of having a PCS for my Recon Platoon, but I think it would be more effective to add a melta or plasma drop unit... or a last minute objective capturer.
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Post by yvain on Apr 25, 2013 20:27:01 GMT -5
A regular line company doesn't have a recon platoon attached. Staff Sergeants usually are Platoon Sgt while a Gunny and First Sgt deal with different responsibilities at the company level. If you are interested in that stuff, just do a search on the table of organization of a marine rifle company. Each company generally has a specialty. One will usually be boats or truck, one amtracks (basically a chimera lol), and one air assault. This doesn't count attachments. There are engineers, observers, drivers, intelligence guys as well. A full up squad is generally three 4-man teams with a squad leader. However, I have seen plenty of three man fire teams. Each squad generally has a light machine gun, while the fire team leaders have grenade launchers attached to their rifles. Back around 50 years when they were still in service, flame throwers were assigned to them as well. And things can also be attached from battalion like sniper squads or Combined anti armor teams etc etc.
I am telling you this because hopefully it add some flexibility to the way you make your list while still allowing you to be happy with your theme. For example, a company does not have to operate completely organic. Things are in threes so they can mutually support each other while being modular. Platoons, squads, and sometimes fire teams separate to complete different objectives. Weapons platoon is often divided up to be attached to the units that are most necessary or off by themselves.
It might still fit your fluff to say instead of an entire company, you are first and second platoon reinforced lead by the XO. This happens. Or perhaps you are a company reduced, with one or two of your platoons separated off to another sister company or completing an objective off the map.
To answer some of your questions:
Only ratlings can be all snipers. Your company command squad could be all snipers minus the commander. Same with a platoon command squad. However, it generally considered a waste as snipers are not that good.
Medi-packs are garbage. I wish they weren't but they are super expensive and only protect a few guys. They should let them attach to squads. Vox casters are iffy. They also do not work in vehicles so the teams in chimeras and Valkyries will not be getting much use.
You CCS will have BS 4. It usually a good idea to stick all special weapons in there. Auto cannons are almost always better than heavy bolters.
I don't run mech guard, but my understand is that you have to kind of go all out with it. I don't know. What I would do is change third platoon to Veterans. And load them up two Vendettas or Valkyries and with your special weapons of choice. Give second platoon command squad a chimera as well and drop the heavy weapons for special weapons in the second platoon squads. So then you have your base defender platoon and your two objective assault elements.
Hopefully that gives you some ideas.
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Post by kharneth on Apr 26, 2013 12:41:37 GMT -5
I appreciate the help with the fluff. I searched and searched all around looking for everthing and only got vague information. I guestimated which ranks would go where based on the information I was given.
I only attached the Recon Platoon because if I was going to follow the rule of 3s, I'd be spending too may points on infantry squads. I was attempting to replace a Platoon with a recon platoon.
If I am reading what you said correctly... how does this sound?
The Infantry Company will only have 2 Infantry Platoons present, as the other is elsewhere (to save points). The Imperial Guard force will incorporate a Recon Platoon. Or are you saying that the Recon would act as a separate force? It will also contain a Weapons Platoon.
Are 2x6 Ratlings a waste of points? I know Medi-Packs are garbage, they will probably just be modeled to represent the Corpsman medic. Vox Casters will be modeled as well to represent the radio-man, my idea was that these guys would use the caster once they go out of the vehicles. I can remove them, I just thought they were cheap enough.
I don't want to run Mech Guard, honestly. I want an Infantry army with support. Everything is suppose to support the infantry. I need to spend more time on the Infantry section of the Forums.
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Post by jenburdoo on Apr 26, 2013 22:51:12 GMT -5
Hi and welcome to the board!
In modern terms, IG companies are traditionally reformed into what we would today call a company team. Modern militaries commonly cross-attach units between their parents, and it's entirely possible for your 3-platoon infantry company to have traded a platoon with a recon company. Normally, this is temporary, but it is not unknown for it to become permanent (for example if the unit is suddenly transferred out of theater). The infantry company gets scouts (perhaps because they are the point unit of an advance?) and the scout company gets welcome extra firepower. Easy as that.
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Post by kharneth on Apr 27, 2013 14:59:56 GMT -5
That sounds good!
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