Starting IG (mechanized?)

[maxz]

I played space marines a couple years ago, and took a break from 40k for two or three years. I just decided to start up again and I've been really excited about IG. i really want to build a tank heavy army, based on a leman russ squad, vets in chimeras, that sort of thing, but I've heard that mech imperial guard (more so the chimera part) aren't as good in 6th edition.
Second thing is, i am on a limited budget (about 150 to start) and I'm not sure what sets to purchase first. The obvious choice seemed to be the battle force, but i really want to be even playing small point games with a leman russ. SHould i buy a command squad, two guardsmen squads and a russ? or should i go with the battle force to begin with?

[jenburdoo]

Welcome to the board!

I have not played much 6th Edition, so can't say much about how or whether vehicles have been "nerfed." But I can tell you that (in my experience) the best way to start an army is to go with what interests you, regardless of how effective it is in games. You want to play with a Leman Russ early? Buy a Leman Russ early! Enthusiasm will keep you going in the early days -- you can expand and improve from there.

With $150 you can get:

20 Guardsmen ($58)
1 Chimera ($37.50)
1 Leman Russ kit ($49.50)
$145 (plus tax).

You can save on the Guardsmen by purchasing the $10 "sample" boxes of five two-piece guardsmen. In that case you won't get the options that come in the ten-man kit, such as flamers, grenade launchers and commlinks, but you will save enough to pick up an HQ box, which comes with five extra guardsmen, a meltagun, plasmagun, and lots of close combat options for your officer and sergeants.

If you meant Euros or UK pounds (dunno where you live), this will go even farther.

So you could make:

HQ - Commissar Lord (build this with the single crewman figure that comes with the vehicle kits).
Troop - 10 Veterans with three flamers, in a Chimera.
Troop - 10 Veterans with three grenade launchers.
Heavy support - Leman Russ, of any flavor you like (Demolishers and Executioners are scariest).

With options, etc, this will get you around 500 points and gives you an objective grabber (the commissar and squad in a Chimera) and an objective holder (the squad with grenade launchers), while the Leman Russ can support either unit or both with its long range.

[Adam Selene]

Welcome Maxz, with the introduction of hull points (and as all armies can field major anti-tank units) your vehicles will be less effective than two years ago, however they are now cheaper (points wise), a basic vet squad in chimera will cost about 130 points.

To begin with it would be best to use a single character for your HQ (Commissar Lord or Primaris Psyker), they can dish out the hurt and tag along with your men as opposed to a Company Command squad who need a whole chimera to themselves.

Taking all these vehicles will make your Guard very assault orientated so I suggest you get Ogryns eventually.

Do you have (access to) the Imperial Guard Codex / 6th Edition Rulebook?

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

I've lost enough battle cannons to lucky glances to be quite pleased with the new hull point system.

[brocchus]

I assume you want a /competitive/ mech army for $150. First of all, find a decent online retailer that gives you 20% off MSRP and sells bits. I recommend The War Store.

Cadian Command x3 $60
Cadian Shock Troops x2 $46
Chimera x3 $90
Plasma Gun bits X 4 $24

Total $220


With that you'll have a nice little 500 point army to build from that is competitive-

HQ
CCS 4x plasma in Chimera ML/HF
Vet Squad 3x melta in Chimera ML/HF
Vet Squad 3x plasma in Chimera ML/HF

You're going with arguably the most expensive type of army in the game. I do not recommend the 5 man boxes for $10 each (at least in the beginning) as you cannot give them special weapons, and mech is all about rolling around blasting people in the face with melta + plasma. There's no sense in starting a mech army on the cheap if it's just going to suck and get you tabled. Save up another $70 and begin with an army that starts strong and grows strong. You'll thank me later.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

If you buy a couple five man snap fix boxes for every full infantry squad kit you end up saving a bit and still have plenty of extras left over to make sergeants and guys with special weapons out of the stuff in the infantry squads and command squad kits.

That is if you want cadians and don't mind some that are kind of flat and a little less detailed.

[maxz]

Brocchus, that sounds like a pretty good route to me. From there i would probably buy a vendetta, some leman russ, or some more scoring units like guardsmen or something. (probably the guardsmen first.) Im buying my stuff from a canadian website that gives a nice and hefty 30% discount on all 40k. They don't sell bits but i think i can convert some plasma guns from my old space marines.

Adam: Yeah, not the rulebook though. Probably just going to look at an online version if I can find one.

Id rather not go the snap fit route, the website I'm buying from doesn't sell them anyway.

[maxz]

Say I move up to 1000 point games in a couple months, how much do you think I should field the battle tanks/artillery? I think I want to go for a fast objective seizing type of deal, with tons of heavy support (mostly russ) or air units.

[brocchus]

You'll need more troops moving forward. You can buy more mech infantry (that's what I'm doing) or if you don't mind going hybrid, a firebase platoon to camp your backfield objectives is relatively inexpensive.

PCS w/flamer x4
Infantry Squad w/ GL AC
Infantry Squad w/ GL AC

With the parts you already bought you'll have the models for a platoon with the purchase of a single Cadian Battleforce. Maybe you can add another Infantry Squad and/or a Commissar. The Aegis Defense line seems like a good deal if you're going to use static firebase blobs to camp objectives.

Remember that your Command Squads give you extra bodies for all your special weapons. At $20 a pop it's a good buy because you get five dudes and tons of special weapons, expecially the precious melta and plasma.

[brocchus]

Regarding plasma and melta. I looked into converting Space Marine plasma and melta for my IG. The bitz were simply too large for my taste and it is important for me to have everything looking consistent throughout the army. That said, it is an option if you're willing to sink the time into converting and you have some decent skills. You'll have to take a look at it for yourself and the bitz are only available directly through GW, I think they're $10 for five.

[maxz]

I really don't like the sound so much of the blob strategy. Would you really need a full platoon to hold a back field objective? I think I'm going to avoid the aegis in the beggining because i don't want to split my army from mechanized to hybrid just yet. The battle force is going to run me $100 (Canadian), the three chimeras 90$. I say to play some real games I'm going to need another 10 guardsmen in a chimera to compete with objectives. From there, i was thinking Vendettas or Leman russ, one of the two. Im already going to have AT firepower from the melta vets, so I'm leaning towards some Russ. Im not so much into the sit back and blast (that seems more like the functions of a troop heavy army's tank to me.) What Russ tanks would you recommend for pushing the enemy off objectives and providing some anti infantry firepower? Or should i just invest in heavy weapons teams for that.

[brocchus]

An advantage of the Platoon is that it gives you cheap Special Weapon squads that you can give 3x flamers and stick in your Vendettas. And uh yeah, 4/6 scenarios involve taking, holding, and contesting objectives so holding one in the backfield with a platoon backed by a Commissar ensures a decent chance of holding out for a few turns when the enemy smashes into you with a specialized close combat unit.

Don't use HW teams, attach HW to your infantry squads. I recommend AC. In my opinion, Demolishers and Exterminators are your best bets for pushing troops off objectives but I'd ask around and see what others think.

EDIT: People swear by Griffons and Manticores. They are worth checking out.

[maxz]

Cool. I'm pretty excited about this mechanized force. Ill allocate the heavy weapon AC teams from the battleforce to the command squad and two plasma/melta vet squads, which will all be in chimeras, and ill use the sentinel for tying up some troops in close combat. Ill grab a Leman Russ kit next, and I'm going to try magnetize the top turret in some form or another so I can change it out from battle cannon to demolisher. From there I was thinking melta vets in vendettas, and change out the melta vet squad in the chimera with a plasma vet squad. Probably going to kit the chimeras out with heavy flamers.

[brocchus]

Apr 30, 2013 8:30:44 GMT -5 maxz said:

Ill allocate the heavy weapon AC teams from the battleforce to the command squad and two plasma/melta vet squads, which will all be in chimeras

Putting an AC in a mech plasmavet squad. It makes them expensive and if you move, you can only hit on a 6 with the AC. Then again, I've considered it myself. Don't put one in the command squad, you'd have to cough up a couple plasma vets. I wouldn't put an AC in a meltavet squad because you are always going to be moving until you get right in their face.

Apr 30, 2013 8:30:44 GMT -5 maxz said:

Ill grab a Leman Russ kit next, and I'm going to try magnetize the top turret in some form or another so I can change it out from battle cannon to demolisher.

It sounds like a huge hassle, I'd just buy another kit.

[maxz]

Okay I still have alot to learn. If I'm not running regular guardsmen how would I use heavy weapons teams in a mech army besides sitting on a home objective? Or if I should use hw teams at all?

[maxz]

Brocchus do you have experience with manticores?

[brocchus]

By the way, if you buy Cadian Shock Troops x2 and Cadian Command Squad x3 instead of the Cadian Battleforce with Cadian Command Squad x3, you save $30 bucks. Something to consider as money is tight and a Sentinel + HWT may not be immediately useful to your all-mech army.

I don't have a Manticore, that's for next month.

[maxz]

Alright. So I ordered my stuff, which did not work out to exactly what i wanted, due to allocation of gift certificates. I had $150 on amazon that I had NO IDEA about, and no chimeras or infantry squads were available, so I went for 2 Russes. In the near future I am buying two more chimeras to mechanize the rest of the army. I also grabbed the Catachan battle force and a chimera from a separate canadian retailer (they were pretty discounted.)
As far as backstory goes, I'm not playing them as Catachans. They are going to be the 13th Cadian armoured regiment who often get caught with their pants off and without flak armour, mid training. I love the look of the Catachans, and this IMO just blends in with the tank crews and it allows me to run some Cadian miniatures.

[brocchus]

Awesome. I just ordered a Manticore, another Valkyrie, and an Executioner yesterday.

[Aeon]

That's a really great fluff oriented idea, Maxz. I like it

My advice for running an all mechanized army would be to run all veterans in carapace armour, and mechanize them. They're the Guard's most resilient troops choice (a giant moving metal can and 4+ saves).

To start out, you could do 2 squads of them with a Lord Commissar and run those 2 Leman Russ's you already bought.

2 tanks, 2 armoured fist squads (that's what they were called under the old codex, and I like to refer to them that way still).

[maxz]

Thanks for the feedback guys, Aeon: I'm pretty set on the company command squad, as they can give orders. unless im mistaken, commissars cant? Okay so I have begun to paint my models and have two veteran squads almost assembled (will be finished after I finish converting the plasma and melta guns.)
Here is my 750 point list i will run with my current models.

Total: 750 pts

CCS plasma X4

Veterans
Plasma X3

Veterans
Melta X3
Chimera with HHF

LRBT
hf sponsoons

LRBT
hf sponsoons

Feedback would be appreciated on the list, and and I was also wondering if I should forgo the hf sponsoons (or anything else) and take the demolitions doctrine for my melta vet squad in the chimera.

[WestRider]

Do not take HF Sponsons on the Russes. The way the Heavy, Ordnance, and Template Rules interact, you can't fire the Heavy Flamers on any Turn you fire the Battle Cannon. Heavy Bolters are the only Sponson option worth considering for a regular Russ or Demolisher.

On the CCS vs LC or Primaris Psyker: Remember that you can't issue Orders to Units that are Embarked on a Transport Vehicle. You can issue Orders out of a Chimera, but not to a Unit in one. If you're running Mech, that cuts way down on the utility of the CCS.

[commisarblur]

I've played mech guard for nearly a year since before 6th and yes the vehicles are easier to destroy thanks to glances and HPs but It makes your army much more mobile with lots of firepower.

Typical Units I use:

Plasma CCs

Four to five Veterans (Do not grant them doctrines. It will save you on points later.)

Two Russes with Medusa siege cannon (Made from Balisik kit, PvC pipe, brass tube and green stuff)

Reminder of points would go to filling up fast attack slots with hellhounds or D-dogs. Or if im feeling bold Use either Blue book marines Sternguard with Drop pod or Space wolf Rune priest with wolf scouts support.

Lately im thinking of dropping the CCs to save on points but its always a plus whenever I can issue orders.

[maxz]

Okay I'm already taking the veteran seargants so a primaris Psycher seems like the better option. Also, one more chimera to mechanize both squads, the Psycher in the transport with the plasma vets. Drop the sponsons, and with extra points, infantry squad with auto cannon for backfield objectives? How do mech guard even hold backfield objectives?

[treadiculous]

My take on this would be to have more of a combined approach:

use chimeras to transport platoon command squads with 4 flamers (scoring and roasty)

keep the LRBT to be big n shooty

have a couple of backfield blobs with heavy weapons in to hold ground and stick a company command squad with them to issue cool orders. Blobs will also save your tanks from deepstrike melta and close combat attacks.

your opponent will expect the transported units to be expensive and full of toys - you will be surprising them with cheap scorchy units that can issue orders to them selves.

I'd throw in a devil dog / hell hound or two to add more fun to the burning melting theme.

please feel free to ignore my inane words.

also -be unique and continue to not field a manticore or vendetta, its refreshing to see!