Force Org and Doctrine?????

[Deleted]

Hey all,

I recently got into 40k last spring, and have been slowly gathering up my IG and trying my best to kick my friends armies to pieces in friendly games, I've come out on top...maybe 50% of the time, but I am sure I if I had a better grasp of the rules it wouldnt be that much! HA..especially against my friends Necron force. Any ways...back to topic

Now that I have a better grasp of the IG I decided I wanted to put some Doctrines into play...and the idea hit me...but the idea...just seems...(in my mind) too good to be true...and I am sure even if it is legal...that on the field it isnt going to be all its cracked up to be like it is in my head and on paper.

Either way If I take the Grenadier Doctrine and buy back storm troopers, am I allowed to use...Storm Troopers as basic infantry counting towards my force organization structure? In other words...Command PLT and 2 PLTs of Stormtroopers...no Infantry PLT, no Armored Fist...etc... does that fullfill my requirments? Ive PRETTY much scoured the Codex...and I dont see why it doesnt work..

Cause Im thinking...3 troops of Storm Troopers...3 Elites of Hardened VETs...fill in the rest as needed with basic infantry and of course a couple LBRT and a Demolisher for a swift kick...and of course I would MOUNT all the Storm Troops on Chimeras...and have the Hardened Vets Infiltrate...or not..but you see where I am going...but I still want to work off the basic idea...in case I am not playing a huge point army...where i can come in with HQ and Two Troops of Storm Troopers with accompanying Doctrines...including others like cameleoline and carapace armor (for the vets and non storm troops) and the Veteran Doctrine.

Final Doctrine Overview
Storm Troopers
Grenadiers
Veterans
Cameleoline...or Cyberenhancement
Carapace Armor or Cyberenhancement

Long story short...is my force org chart fulfilled legally? 1 HQ 2 Stormtroopers with Grenadier Doctrine and Storm trooper bought back....

Thanks
1-86 MTN IBCT (Mountain Infantry Brigade Combat Team)

Me

Commanding

[knight (M.I.A)]

Hello and welcome to the IGMB.

And now directly to the core.
- Grenadiers are stormtroopers as troop choices, just without the option to infiltrate or deepstrike. (So you can have 3 squads of them mounted in Chimeras)
- Stormtroopers are an elite choice and you don't need them to use Grenadiers

Well and now to the nasty part. You should really reconsider your other doctrines.
Take either Veterans or Stormtroopers, but not both since they use the same slots (elite)
Carapace, Chameoline, and/or Cyberenhancment will make your troop really, really expensive since ever "Guard Infantry" unit will have to take it. And since you prefer smaller games you should spend all the points you have on more troops.

[Deleted]

I thought the doctrine Grenadiersn turns some Storm Troopers into a regular troop choice...thus freeing up Elite slots...

[knight (M.I.A)]

Grenadiers are specially trained troopers who use the rules of Stormtroopers (just without Deepstriking and Infliltrating)
The Stormtroopers-doctrineallows you to use Stormtroopers as elite choice.
So if you have:
Just grenadiers, you may use up to 3 units of grenadiers (stormtroopers as troop choices)
Just stormtroopers, you may use up to 3 stormtrooper squads as elite choices.
If you use both doctrines you may use 3 stormtrooper and 3 grenadier squads.
So you can use both doctrines at the same time, but you can use just one of them without problems as well

[Deleted]

Ok...so just to clarify...

I can...take grenadiers...which allows me to field 3 Grenadier squads (model wise storm troopers) which will use the SAME stats AND equipment as Storm Troopers with exception to infiltrate and deep strike (which i had accounted for) thus BASICALLY lets me field 3 storm trooper squads as Troops. BUT because they arent TECHNICALLY storm troopers I do not have to buy storm troopers back...but in a way I am still fielding them so I can spend that doctrine point on ratlings or...ogryns...
Which then frees me up to use my elite choices on...vets...

Original question still stand...with that grenadier doctrine...does HQ and 2 grenadier (storms) squads fulfill my Force Org chart requirements?

Side question...if you buy an equipment doctrine..you HAVE to pay the points for every squad? Not just the squads you want equiped with it? and in that sense...would i have to pay for carapce armor on troops that already come with it like...grenadiers or storm troopers?

[knight (M.I.A)]

Ok...so just to clarify...

I can...take grenadiers...which allows me to field 3 Grenadier squads (model wise storm troopers) which will use the SAME stats AND equipment as Storm Troopers with exception to infiltrate and deep strike (which i had accounted for) thus BASICALLY lets me field 3 storm trooper squads as Troops. BUT because they arent TECHNICALLY storm troopers I do not have to buy storm troopers back...but in a way I am still fielding them so I can spend that doctrine point on ratlings or...ogryns...
Which then frees me up to use my elite choices on...vets...

Right ;D

Original question still stand...with that grenadier doctrine...does HQ and 2 grenadier (storms) squads fulfill my Force Org chart requirements?

Yes. Totally legal. 1 HQ + 2 Troops

Side question...if you buy an equipment doctrine..you HAVE to pay the points for every squad? Not just the squads you want equiped with it? and in that sense...would i have to pay for carapce armor on troops that already come with it like...grenadiers or storm troopers?

Everyone targeted in the doctrine rules. Normally doctrines target "Guard Infantry". Which units count as "Guard Infantry" you can look up in your codex on the page with the restricted troops. (the page where you decide what restricted units to pay back).
Stormtroopers and Grenadiers aren't Guard Infantry so they don't get Carapace

Oh and everyone who can get a special equipment doctrine has to get it, if you want it for them or not doesn't matter. (that's why I normally avoid them)

[Deleted]

Great! So then Now i just need to mess with my doctrines a bit...but besides that...I am all set...good stuff!

Thanks for the help..when I finally come down up with a fairly nailed down list I will prob post it and see how it stands to the experiance...I know you said I should concentrate on MORE troops...than doctrines and gear, I want you to know I acknowledge that...and agree..In fact to this point I think the best tactic against Necron is massed concripts....haha! but I want to give this a try...as a learning experiance if nothing else!

Thanks again!

[Deleted]

O ya..one more ?

When u get doctrine special equipment...when spent on HQ squad...does it also affect the officer of the HQ? THe book says yes to command squad including officers..but im curious if it is talking about Infantry PLT command squads or if it also counts as HQ command squads?

[Deleted]

an HQ is a command squad with an officer so ....YES ;D

[Woz]

You could take Storm troopers in Chimeras as your troops and three squads of Vets as your Elites. That way you get to field some squads with heavy weapons (which are much needed in IG armies)

[Deleted]

That was exactly my plan...3 stormtroopers (aka grenadiers) in chimeras and 3 vets (possibly infiltrating) to ramp up my heavy weapons, and my ballistic skill. Supported by...regular ground pounders, and armor...of course armor.

[twerd]

cool loking forward to your list i realylike the whole elite greandier armies good luck on the field

[Deleted]

Hmmm intersting give us some posts later to let us know this works out. I may need to consider this myself.