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Post by treadiculous on Sept 14, 2013 4:30:00 GMT -5
yvain - I share your thoughts on the Raven Gaurd / Jump Pack vs Bike issues:
Somewhere in GW games testing must be some table or scenery that makes it impossible for bikes and yet gives jump packs an easy time.
Hammer of Wrath does do some goodness, especially when combo'd with a chaplain Raven Guard - re-roll to hit and wound with HoW.
just a shame neither Templars nor Ravens have an edge worth talking about...
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Post by cheminhaler on Sept 14, 2013 5:04:16 GMT -5
I see. So rhinos are just too weak. My main issue is that I have 3 rhinos and 2 razorbacks that could make a nice mech list. Even though some of the rhinos aren't optimal (one has extra armour and a hunter killer missile, another a dozer blade) I don't want to get rid of the models, so I've been making lists using my existing mech just to see how few infantry/ other vehicles I'd need to complete a 1.5 k list. So far I've made a list using 6 of my 7 available vehicles and I'd only need 32 infantry, a landspeeder, a stormraven, a whirlwind and one of those new Hunter rhinos...
Raven guard might be a better trade off, I can't decide....
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Post by WestRider on Sept 14, 2013 11:11:34 GMT -5
Mech is a perfectly valid choice. It's just unlikely to actually gain much from IH Chapter Tactics. You're probably going to be better off with Raven Guard, or just defaulting to Imperial Fists or Ultramarines. Hard to go wrong with one of those two, no matter what you're doing with the List.
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Post by cheminhaler on Sept 16, 2013 14:31:21 GMT -5
Its a shame, the idea of so much vehicle repair going on seems like a good one. It would be a nightmare to keep track of hull points what with IWND, techmarine repairs AND rhino's repairing immobilised results by themselves.
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Post by 3ff3ct on Sept 18, 2013 5:25:41 GMT -5
Coming back on topic, the new rules for Legion of the Dammed look pretty good Having a healthy points drop and giving ALL their weapons Ignores Cover is pretty cool Along with Slow and Purposeful and being able to re-roll deep strike scatter will be very handy at taking out Eldar tanks and bikes/jetbikes I'm glad I invested in them due to them looking awesome. Now they're awesome on the table top too I'm glad to see my Sallies didn't get too much of a kicking, and pleased that characters can casually rock out master-crafted weapons, as they do. So I can still do a fluffy and mildly competative list I am liking the look of Iron Hands though, they're now pretty tasty, especially if coupled with some of those Relics that are hanging around. I think it's a good dex, as it's injected a lot more 'plays like they should' into the different chapters, rather them relying on characters, which often got 'counts as'd' into every army anyway.
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Post by WestRider on Sept 18, 2013 13:24:32 GMT -5
A couple of points to keep in mind for Salamanders: 1) Master-Crafting a Combi-Weapon MCs both the bolter part and the other. Particularly important for SternGuard Sergeants. 2) Vulkan's special Rule not only MCs both parts of Combi-Weapons, but it doesn't require Chapter Tactics, just that the Model be in his Detachment. This means that it works on Vehicles AND that it works on Legion of the Damned. So now you're looking at a Relentless, Ignores Cover, Master-Crafted Multi-Melta that can Deep Strike fairly reliably. With probably a Meltagun and Combi-Melta to go along with that, just for insurance
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Post by 3ff3ct on Sept 24, 2013 3:27:11 GMT -5
Cheers Westrider, it looks like my badass Sallies just got even more badasser-er
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Post by dangerrod on Sept 25, 2013 23:36:20 GMT -5
A couple of points to keep in mind for Salamanders: 1) Master-Crafting a Combi-Weapon MCs both the bolter part and the other. Particularly important for SternGuard Sergeants. 2) Vulkan's special Rule not only MCs both parts of Combi-Weapons, but it doesn't require Chapter Tactics, just that the Model be in his Detachment. This means that it works on Vehicles AND that it works on Legion of the Damned. So now you're looking at a Relentless, Ignores Cover, Master-Crafted Multi-Melta that can Deep Strike fairly reliably. With probably a Meltagun and Combi-Melta to go along with that, just for insurance Legion just got baderer!!
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Post by treadiculous on Oct 3, 2013 4:30:39 GMT -5
Having played a couple of games with the new 'dex (: commissar.proboards.com/thread/17781/new-space-marines?page=1&scrollTo=372959 ) I can state that for those of us who haven't got a specific chapter or don't mind playing a 'counts as' chapter then the addition of doctrines is very useful in boosting the strengths of your list. It is a shame that the various chapters aren't balanced and some require quite specific styles of list building and need to be lucky with the missions they roll. I'm thinking of Templars here who really need a lot of veteran sergeants and an assault focused army to make use of their special rules. (I think I need to play a few games with them to know for sure). The wargear options feel more like what I'd expect, with skyfire misssiles available now, though I'm still struggling to see why they didn't grant assault marines the option of taking melta guns (surely an ideal platform if there was one) However, I am liking the 2 special weapons in a squad of 5. Whilst on the subject of jump packs (again!), I am disappointed to see that neither honour guard nor command squads can take jump packs. I still find it annoying that if bikes are taken for HQ then they can be used as troops yet the same doesn't apply for a similar form of transport. I guess the Blood Angel codex is the reason behind this, as it provides all the options I seek. On the positive, the Vanguard veterans are great value as they bring a bucket load of attacks for a bargain price when compared to assault squads. In summary.. I like it, just need to get used to it!
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Post by WestRider on Oct 3, 2013 9:54:22 GMT -5
I think Templars may actually be best off ignoring their theoretical actual advantages and focusing on the strengths of the Crusader Squads being able to take both a Heavy and a Special at minimum size. I've been fooling around with Razorspam lists for them, and some of the possible builds are kind of ridiculous.
What I actually really want for Assault Squads (tho proper Special Weapons options would be nice, don't get me wrong) is the ability to take Power Weapons/Fists in the Squad rather than just on the Sergeant. You know, actually give Assault Squads gear they can use in an Assault. Ideally that would be at a discounted price to account for the fact that an A1 Model doesn't get as much value out of a Power Weapon as an A3 Model.
Vanguard Veterans, if you don't go nuts with them, can be pretty much exactly what I wanted regular Assault Squads to be. Take a couple of Storm Shields, a couple of Power Axes, and a handful of Meltabombs, and you're ready to smash stuff up at a not-unreasonable price.
And yes, I am absolutely certain that Blood Angels are the reason so many of these options aren't available to Vanilla Marines. I've long argued that they would fold into the Vanilla Codex just fine with just a few unlocks and Special Characters, but GW seems determined to keep them separate.
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