interested in starting Imperial Guard.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

Hello everybody
I am looking at starting a new IG army by buying the codex and a
battleforce plus one box of shocktroops and a commisar.

my question is will that be enough for minimun force on the orginization chart?(pluse the tank and heavy weapon teams)

also where would you expand from here if you had the option?
I plan to keep it pretty small and blanaced at least till I get the hang of them.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

The Battle force is a good start. I gives you one Platoon to begin.

You will also need to pick up a command squad since the Battle force doesn't have one.

Where to go from there? It all depends on what you plan on doing with the force.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

ymmot said:

Hello everybody
I am looking at starting a new IG army by buying the codex and a
battleforce plus one box of shocktroops and a commisar.

my question is will that be enough for minimun force on the orginization chart?(pluse the tank and heavy weapon teams)

who cares, you should have no problem playing killteam battles at first, then grow into 40k in 40min games with it. this whole stage of 40k goodness is the pre-force organization chart level.

by the time you get your feet wet in killteam and 40k in 40min. you will totally know what you want to do to expand into force organization chart type battles

also where would you expand from here if you had the option?
I plan to keep it pretty small and blanaced at least till I get the hang of them.

to the painting table! dual wield glue and paintbrushes and you won't go wrong. alot of people have a whole different level of respect for people who bring painted armies to the table. it's neat to feel like you're in the 'hardcore 40k player club.' something that people with unpainted armies never really get admitted to, no matter how good they are at the game.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

good advice on the killteams and 40k in a flash but I'm still curious about the organization chart and how it works with the IG...I just want to know what models I will need to buy to fill the barebones minimum of my required slots.

at least 1 troop choice must be made up of 2 ten man squads and a 5 man officer squad

the box only comes with 20 troops so I'll be needing at least 5 more and so I gotta buy another box of 20 which leaves me with 15 left over

is 15 troops enough to form a conscript squad and fill up my second troop choice?

also I heard you can make the commissar an independent character does that mean he can join up with the conscript squad mid battle like other independent characters in other armies can join and leave squads?


as for getting stuff painted for the table...I own four 40k armies already and they are all finished(I am an addict...its like crack I tells ya! cept crack is porbably cheaper.)

[mardaddy]

Yes the Commissar can join a unit just like any other Independent (and he'd be best served with the conscripts anyways if you plan to field any...)

As far as 15 enough for a Conscript Platoon... I'm still an IG novice, and never fielded conscripts, so don't have all that quite memorized yet, someone else will have to advise...

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

I just noticed on the GW website it says the comissar takes up an elite slot if taken as an independant character so does that mean he loses his HQ status as well?

I'm guessing the HQ command Squad is already required anyway...not so bad I guess as its got some cool looking models in it, not sure what that injured looking guy is all about though.(looks as if he is sitting around on the job to me!) Anyways thanks for the feedback so far.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

ymmot said:

at least 1 troop choice must be made up of 2 ten man squads and a 5 man officer squad

the box only comes with 20 troops so I'll be needing at least 5 more and so I gotta buy another box of 20 which leaves me with 15 left over

there are a few routes to go to achieve your foundational 2 troop choices, they are:

1. 2x 25 man platoons
2. 1x 25 man platoon and 1x armored fist, or 1x conscript platoon, or 1x grenadier squad.
3. 2x grenadier squads.

if you're looking for a 'bare bones' setup, then you can go with 2x 5 man grenadier squads on foot. that's like...150pts or something rediculously low. the only caution in this is that you're looking at having 10x painted stormtrooper/grenadiers completed for your army which kinda locks you into one of the following setups:

1. using no doctrines so that all the unit entries in the codex are unlocked.
2. setting aside a doctrine point for good to go towards either the grenadiers doctrine or allowing stormtroopers off the restricted unit list.

the third option is just getting 2x 5 man squads of grenadiers, leaving them unpainted and just using them 'for now' with the plan to not have any grenadiers/stormtroopers in the final product of your list.

is 15 troops enough to form a conscript squad and fill up my second troop choice?

conscripts are bought by the 'squad' with a squad equalling 10 troopers. each conscript platoon is a minimum of 2 squads, max of 5 and acts as a single unit (aka they run around in a big mob). so to answer your question precisely: no, 15 will not be enough to form a conscript platoon.

also I heard you can make the commissar an independent character does that mean he can join up with the conscript squad mid battle like other independent characters in other armies can join and leave squads?

if you include commissars, whether they be independent or not, you're filling an elite slot to allow them into your army, though you can take multiple commissars which attach to multiple units and act independently of eachother during the battle all for that single elite slot price on the force organization chart.

if you're willing to sink a doctrine point into it, you can indeed go with independent commissars and put your commissar with your conscript platoon. you are correct in saying he can 'abandon' them at any point to go on his way to join up with another squad too.

one 'dirty trick' I might mention that is a work-around to the commissar thing, and is neat in a different way is that I will support my conscript platoon with an officer and, after the platoon absorbs the charge of a nasty enemy melee unit and is looking battered, in my opponent's turn, I'll just decline to use the officer's leadership to test morale for the conscripts (as it IS optional ^_^ ) this basically means that the conscripts are reduced to retardedly low leadership and are almost guaranteed to break, meaning you can control when the combat breaks to allow your carefully positioned squads and tanks to blast/shell the living crud out of that oh so nasty enemy melee squad it's a dirty trick and it essentially sacrifices the conscripts, but hey, as a guard commander you have to recognize the value of the word 'sacrifice'!

as for getting stuff painted for the table...I own four 40k armies already and they are all finished(I am an addict...its like crack I tells ya! cept crack is porbably cheaper.)

hell yeah would love to see some pics of your other painted armies - and yeah...crack probably IS cheaper if I had to wager a guess on the matter (cuz omg I'm broke right now trying to put together my new army :s )

ymmot said:

I just noticed on the GW website it says the comissar takes up an elite slot if taken as an independant character so does that mean he loses his HQ status as well?

commissars never take up a HQ slot or are considered to have HQ status as they are advisors and simply attach to command squads in an 'add on' type fashion.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

turtleboy said:

ymmot said:

commissars never take up a HQ slot or are considered to have HQ status as they are advisors and simply attach to command squads in an 'add on' type fashion.

heh that just goes to show how big a noob I am to the IG.

anyway today I cracked and got me the codex along with 10 unbuilt guardsmen and 2 junior officers off ebay for a pretty good deal, so my new plan is to get me a box of 20 troops and a battleforce along with the HQ command squad once I have a bit more money.(2 weeks!)

I'm pretty sure that'll give me a nice little starting point for further accumulation of troops and vechiles

[Deleted]

Easy way to get a good Guard force. (Assuming you have the rules and the codex, dice and stuff.)

1 Cadian Battle Force ($90) (1 Troop and 1 Heavy Weapon, Leman Russ)

1 Command Squad ($35) (1 HQ)

1 Armored Fist Squad ($45) (1 Troop)

1 Cadian Lieutenants Blister ($12) (Explained Later)

1 Heavy Weapons Squad ($35) (HQ upgrade. Recommend Fire Support Squad)

Optional:

1 Ratling Squad ($12) (1 Elite)

1 Kasrkin Squad ($40) (1 Elite)

1 Basilisk ($40) (1 Heavy Support)

1 Cadian Storm Troopers/Catachan Jungle Fighters ($35) (Extra models for Hardened Vets, more special weapons, Snipers, etc.)

When putting your Guard together, follow these simple rules-

Give the two squads of your platoon a Heavy Weapon apiece. I recommend Heavy Bolters or Autocannons. Using a Lieutenant from the blister, create your Platoon Command with the four extra Cadian models left over, or use two Cadians and give the command platoon an anti-tank heavy weapon.

Never neglect the sponsons on your Leman Russ. Add a Hunter-Killer missile and/or a pintle Stubber for extra power.

Use the extra heavy weapons to give your HQ a Fire Support or Anti-Tank squad. It doesn't use a slot in the force organization, and it doesn't require another command platoon like a Heavy Weapons platoon would.

For Fire Support, go all Heavy Bolters. More shots= more chances to hit. With the Anti-Tank squad, go all Lascannons if you can afford it. Make sure to keep it well behind the lines, as it will become a giant fire magnet.

Take the meltagun from your command platoon and switch it with a figure from the Armored Fist squad. This is the only squad with a chance of getting close enough to shoot with it. Always give your Chimera smoke launchers. It will increase your survivability when you move up the field.

Tactics and such can be talked about for days, but there's no real replacement for good, hard lessons learned by actually playing.

Good luck!

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

thenoblewolves said:

When putting your Guard together, follow these simple rules-

Give the two squads of your platoon a Heavy Weapon apiece. I recommend Heavy Bolters or Autocannons. Using a Lieutenant from the blister, create your Platoon Command with the four extra Cadian models left over, or use two Cadians and give the command platoon an anti-tank heavy weapon.

I have to say I agree with the inclusion of a heavy weapon (aka the static shooty guard squad) in every squad unless you're going with the carapace armor doctrine at which point you're capable of infantry who can advance in the open (or >maybe< a jungle fighters or urban styled army which is made to focus on city fighting where you're not looking at ever having much of a line of sight due to overly dense terrain and a high need to move where, due to the amt. of terrain, you can do so with relative safety.

there's many setups for command squads, here are a couple of the more popular:

cmd. squad w/ mortar crew (babysits heavy weapon squads to provide the leadership buff, iron discipline to ignore the -1 for under half strength, company standard for rerollable morale...toss in a commissar to buff the leadership even more and you're lookin' good at keeping your heavy weapon squads locked down and willing to stay for the fight)

cmd. squad w/ 2-3 plasma guns and a medic, officer w/ a powersword or fist extra advisors for additional cc goodness (this is your general front line command squad - packs a whollup and can follow thru to some digree in melee which they will undoubtably end up in if they aren't gunned down first).

that's about it - some people go with 4x meltaguns, that seems pretty good..some with 4x grenade launchers for a 'skirmisher' style command squad that kinda hovers around just out of reach lobbing grenades en masse into oncoming squads.

Never neglect the sponsons on your Leman Russ. Add a Hunter-Killer missile and/or a pintle Stubber for extra power.

I agree with the inclusion of sponsons on your tanks - they're cheap and are very helpful. heavy stubber seems pretty cool - my luck with vehicle borne weapons is just jinxed or something cuz my vehicles always seem to really do poorly at actually hitting stuff, but hey, more dice is always good - besides that, it's a defensive weapon and can always add to the volume of fire (so long as you're not firing the main gun..which typically gets blown off the tank with suprising regularity). hunter killer missiles count as a main weapon firing, so you're looking at having to choose between the lascannon and hunter killer if the vehicle moves and you can only fire 1 main weapon. it requires no movement from the vehicle to unload with the lascannon AND hunter killer - definately nerfs the usefulness by a bit. if you go with the triple heavy bolter set up for the leman russ then you don't have to worry as much about the hunter killer being 'difficult' to use in an optimized fashion.

sentinels are different - they can fire hunter killers and their other main weapon on the move - gotta love walker rules! that's beside the point though..

Use the extra heavy weapons to give your HQ a Fire Support or Anti-Tank squad. It doesn't use a slot in the force organization, and it doesn't require another command platoon like a Heavy Weapons platoon would.

agreed - heavy weapons squads are the teeth of your infantry - they make the bite hurt.

as far as the heavy weapons platoon command squad - i personally think extra command squads are a benefit, though losing a heavy slot is a painful loss when you're looking at that equating to one less russ or basilisk that makes it to the field.

For Fire Support, go all Heavy Bolters. More shots= more chances to hit. With the Anti-Tank squad, go all Lascannons if you can afford it. Make sure to keep it well behind the lines, as it will become a giant fire magnet.

with fire support squads I'm actually of the opinion that autocannons are where it's at. autocannons threaten transport and/or skimmer based armies which is a >huge< thing. if you can stop an enemies transport rush then you get a free round to unload with all your guns into their entangled faces. that's like double your pleasure right there. if you've got heavy bolters across the board then you're gonna be taking a transport rush in the face with little chance of stopping it unless you bone up on multilasers somethin' fierce. lascannons don't get it done when 8 rhinos rush you then pop smoke and go glancing only.

on that note, I fully support all lascannons in the AT squads. lascannons are >vastly< superior to missile launchers in killing high armor targets. a missile can only glance an armor 14 target, which buys it a 1 in 6 chance of killing the vehicle. lascannons get that >plus< the capability to land a 'sweet spot' hit that has a 50% chance to kill a vehicle, but otherwise maim the crap outta it more than likely. if you need heavy enemy armor to die, get a lascannon.

Take the meltagun from your command platoon and switch it with a figure from the Armored Fist squad. This is the only squad with a chance of getting close enough to shoot with it. Always give your Chimera smoke launchers. It will increase your survivability when you move up the field.

meltaguns in armored fist squads=good for sure. as far as armored fists being the only one's who'll make it to melee, not so much. 95% of battles end in IG in melee with the enemy. most opponents are like 'hah IG, cool, so I get in close and maul you in melee...got it.' this means that common squads will typically have that one round where they get a chance to stick a meltagun in some baddies face and pull the trigger, praying that the baddie in question isn't fast enough to avoid getting vaporized.

I'm in total agreement that chimerae need smoke launchers - all transports do. standard rush tactic: move 12", pop smoke...weather the glancing blows...move 12" dismount. rush complete.

if you remove the 'pop smoke' part of the deal, then you're asking to deal with multiple penning hits that will likely scrap the chimera and leave the survivors entangled and being gunned down. that considered, it's a wise few points to spend for the smoke launchers

Good luck!

ditto ^_^

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

wow thanks for all the great suggestions I'm looking forward start sticking it to some xeno scum with good ol team #1

this morning I had a vision.

I see 2 platoons with 2 lascannons with officer and mortar team

HQ command squad with a heavy weapon(missile launcher?)

20 conscripts teamed up with an independent commissar

10 stormtroopers

leman russ

everyone pretty much sits back and the stormtroopers and conscripts advance behind the 14 strength armor of the leman russ

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

your vision shows you've got some great insights rolling around in your subconscious mind - you're talking about a main line with an offensive force built to take and hold.

I might recommend something interesting to mull over as you have your coffee...

chimera w/ ogryns, chimera w/ stormtroopers, hellhound.

if i roll 2 chimerae and a hellhound with the inferno cannon of DEATH at you 12" and pop smoke, what are you gonna shoot at? probably the hellhound since it's a squad killer and one of the most effective killing machines in the IG arsenal. ok, so you drop all your guns into killing it and take it down.

my turn: I roll up 12" and dump a wave of stormtroopers in your face, rapid firing with a big ol' squad of ogryns piling out right behind them where you can't quite get to them cuz of the stormtroopers in the way...oh yeah, that's right, I'm gonna get my charge bonus and "crack sum heds" with my brawly ogryn.

interesting thought eh? you're also talking about taking your advance all the way into the enemy deployment zone with this formation as well, not just slowly advancing behind a tank moving up at 6" per round.


a note about the leman russ...it's really "russian." what I mean is this: it's really kinda stripped down in it's basic build. front armor is max, side armor is >weak< for a "main battle tank." it's kinda just got a big gun and a thick plate of armor on the front but is otherwise quite poor quality. this is how we get 'em at the cheap point cost that we do. the best way I can describe the leman russ is as the 'preffered version of the direct fire basilisk.' it's got the big gun, great range, and can actually survive a face to face shootout. flank it and it dies though

when you start talking about advancing a leman russ, you should likely consider the demolisher - you give up that sweet range, but you pick up some extra side armor plates which are crucial when moving into fire that is more and more likely to be able to flank.

as far as your HQ command squad, I've found that giving them a heavy weapon just doesnt really work out unless you go for a mortar and have them babysit heavy weapon squads...which is another point....

heavy weapon squads are how we bring the pain with our infantry. they do the heavy lifting and get the job done when it comes to downing transports and killing enemy armor - they're even capable of dishing out a pretty hefty volume of long range anti-infantry fire. point is that you'll have a hard time getting your infantry to pull it's weight without heavy weapon squads on the table - just a bit of advice borne of knowlege gained from actual experience.

conscripts are always a good 'last resort' unit to have lingering around, incase the enemy sacks your lines and you just need a ton of attacks on the charge to crush him with which then tie up that enemy advance while the rest of your guys escape.

I leave my conscripts hidden fully behind a big hill or forest - 89pts worth of reallyreally bad BS shooting with no heavy weapons ain't gonna help too much...but landing a full force boot the head with them when the enemy arrives IS gonna help alot.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

ogryns just dont do anything for me, they'd be out of place for the theme I have envisioned for my Army.
I do want to get my mits on a chimera but not for a little while at least.

I am now the owner of a 25 man platoon with three heavy weapons
plus a five man command squad, one commissar, 10 stormtroopers, 20 conscripts, and a leman russ battle tank.

next on my buy list is another cadian battleforce and a basilisk

after that I plan on getting a transport and fast attack(hellhound)

I want to get me a nice shooty force with a squad or two that can advance when I need them to and a few tanks and big guns to make things all the more fun.


my first assembled and primered guardsmen meet face to face with the tyranid swarm warpspawn.


their deaths will be avenged!

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

haha awesome pics ^_^

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

so my codex hasnt arrived in the mail yet...

The models are pouring in and I'm starting to feel like I'm flying blind here so I got a quick question to throw out there.

can every ten man squad in a 25-55 platoon have the same assault weapon? (grenade launcher/flamer/ect.)

also I can have assault weapons and heavy weapons in the same squad right?

these might be a silly questions but I'm anxious to start building and I dont want to make any mistakes and end up having to chop guys up later.