Post by Aeon on Jun 10, 2014 1:31:13 GMT -5
I was playing vassal earlier with a guy who is pretty new to Guard, and my 1k Cadian list absolutely crushed his 1k Vostroyan list in about 2 turns. I almost tabled him. I killed half of 2 of his squads, and managed to have them run off the table edge, blew up his hellhound, and manged to cripple his leman russ vanquisher to the point that he could not use it effectively. He surrender at the end of my 2nd turn.
My list was 2 blob squads of 30, with 2 platoon command squads, with 8 grenade launchers between them all. A leman russ battle tank, a manticore launcher, a squad of veterans with 3 melta guns in a Taurox, and a company command squad with a medic and a mortar
his list (if I remember correctly), was a company command squad with carapace armor, a medic, a lascannon, and a company banner (a waste of points, if you ask me). 3 squads of veterans in carapace armor, with 2 or 3 plasma guns for each squad (can't exactly remember). A leman russ vanquisher with plasma cannon sponsons, and a hellhound
Almost anybody who's been playing Guard long enough could look at that list, and immediatly recognize several things:
- over priced command squad
- not enough long range fire power
- no mobility (no chimeras or tauroxes)
- not enough men (if they were mobile, that would be one thing, but they were on foot)
- a tank without a true purpose
The only thing that really seemed good to me was the hellhound, but I manged to hit it with 3 meltas and rolled a pair of 7s and blew it up haha
So, I tried to advise him on some tactics and ideas to make his list stronger, while still sticking to the fluff that he really loves about the Vostroyans. Hell, I think they're badass. They give their first born sons to the Emperor and use old flintlock style lasguns. Manliness in every way, shape and form
So here's the list I wrote for him. If I run into him again, I'll run it by him and see if he likes it, but I thought i'd put it up here first, to see if any of you noticed anything that I might have missed.
For reference, Vostryans on this list means Veteran in carapace armor. I included the price of carapace armor into the cost of a 10 man veteran squad
I addressed his lack of fire power by giving him more men, and less expensive special and heavy weapons. I took out the company standard because he really didn't need it. I took away his ridiculous vanquisher with plasma and put in 2 MBTs and a demolisher, which shall be leading the charge. Because Vostroyan regiments are so small and generally very elite, they generally are all veterans and have few numbers with very well trained troops, so it makes sense to have the carapace veterans, but that means you have expensive squad that can be chewed up just as easily as any guard squad.
I've found the best way to keep myself from have a berseker mentality with elite Guard armies is to kind of weigh myself down, it keeps my psychotic war mentality in check. So I gave every single squad a heavy weapon. He's got 2 autocannon squads with 2 grenade launchers, for popping open transports and tearing apart lightly armored squads such as Guard, fire warriors, eldar guardians, etc. And then I gave him 2 squads with lascannons and threw in some grenade launchers because they're decently long range, and blast templates can help counteract the fact that his heavy weapon only has 1 shot per turn (on top of shots from his MIGHTY LASGUNS of course!).
Lastly I threw in a lascannon into the company command squad, because BS4 makes those anti tank shots just that much more effective
His old list didn't have any blast templates aside from the hellhound, which died quickly, so I gave him the 3 tanks. The demolisher can be at the front of his army, drawing fire, while the 2 Leman Russes can pummel targets from the sides
Personally, I think this list would be a very effective list, especially for Purge the Alien. He's got minimal kill points for a guard army, with good armor saves on all his troops. he's got 3 very good anti tank shots in the army coming from his infantry, and 4 nice anti APC shots coming from the infantry, plus 8 small templates from his grenade launchers for stopping hordes. His tanks can put down 2 large blast templates clear across the map that can wipe out 3+ saves, and he even has a blast that can crunch vehicles and eat up terminators if he ends up fighting them in 1000 points
Let me know if you notice any flaws
Vostroyan 1000 points
H.Q:
Company Command
Lascannon, Medic, Carapace armor
105
Troops:
10x Vostroyans
Autocannon , 2x Grenade launchers
95
Troops:
10x Vostroyans
Autocannon, 2x Grenade launchers
95
Troops:
10x Vostroyans
Lascannon, 2x Grenade launcher
105
Troops:
10x Vostroyans
Lascannon, 2x Grenade launcher
105
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle tank (150)
150
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle tank
150
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Demolisher
Heavy bolters, Recovery gear
195
Total: 1000 points
My list was 2 blob squads of 30, with 2 platoon command squads, with 8 grenade launchers between them all. A leman russ battle tank, a manticore launcher, a squad of veterans with 3 melta guns in a Taurox, and a company command squad with a medic and a mortar
his list (if I remember correctly), was a company command squad with carapace armor, a medic, a lascannon, and a company banner (a waste of points, if you ask me). 3 squads of veterans in carapace armor, with 2 or 3 plasma guns for each squad (can't exactly remember). A leman russ vanquisher with plasma cannon sponsons, and a hellhound
Almost anybody who's been playing Guard long enough could look at that list, and immediatly recognize several things:
- over priced command squad
- not enough long range fire power
- no mobility (no chimeras or tauroxes)
- not enough men (if they were mobile, that would be one thing, but they were on foot)
- a tank without a true purpose
The only thing that really seemed good to me was the hellhound, but I manged to hit it with 3 meltas and rolled a pair of 7s and blew it up haha
So, I tried to advise him on some tactics and ideas to make his list stronger, while still sticking to the fluff that he really loves about the Vostroyans. Hell, I think they're badass. They give their first born sons to the Emperor and use old flintlock style lasguns. Manliness in every way, shape and form
So here's the list I wrote for him. If I run into him again, I'll run it by him and see if he likes it, but I thought i'd put it up here first, to see if any of you noticed anything that I might have missed.
For reference, Vostryans on this list means Veteran in carapace armor. I included the price of carapace armor into the cost of a 10 man veteran squad
I addressed his lack of fire power by giving him more men, and less expensive special and heavy weapons. I took out the company standard because he really didn't need it. I took away his ridiculous vanquisher with plasma and put in 2 MBTs and a demolisher, which shall be leading the charge. Because Vostroyan regiments are so small and generally very elite, they generally are all veterans and have few numbers with very well trained troops, so it makes sense to have the carapace veterans, but that means you have expensive squad that can be chewed up just as easily as any guard squad.
I've found the best way to keep myself from have a berseker mentality with elite Guard armies is to kind of weigh myself down, it keeps my psychotic war mentality in check. So I gave every single squad a heavy weapon. He's got 2 autocannon squads with 2 grenade launchers, for popping open transports and tearing apart lightly armored squads such as Guard, fire warriors, eldar guardians, etc. And then I gave him 2 squads with lascannons and threw in some grenade launchers because they're decently long range, and blast templates can help counteract the fact that his heavy weapon only has 1 shot per turn (on top of shots from his MIGHTY LASGUNS of course!).
Lastly I threw in a lascannon into the company command squad, because BS4 makes those anti tank shots just that much more effective
His old list didn't have any blast templates aside from the hellhound, which died quickly, so I gave him the 3 tanks. The demolisher can be at the front of his army, drawing fire, while the 2 Leman Russes can pummel targets from the sides
Personally, I think this list would be a very effective list, especially for Purge the Alien. He's got minimal kill points for a guard army, with good armor saves on all his troops. he's got 3 very good anti tank shots in the army coming from his infantry, and 4 nice anti APC shots coming from the infantry, plus 8 small templates from his grenade launchers for stopping hordes. His tanks can put down 2 large blast templates clear across the map that can wipe out 3+ saves, and he even has a blast that can crunch vehicles and eat up terminators if he ends up fighting them in 1000 points
Let me know if you notice any flaws
Vostroyan 1000 points
H.Q:
Company Command
Lascannon, Medic, Carapace armor
105
Troops:
10x Vostroyans
Autocannon , 2x Grenade launchers
95
Troops:
10x Vostroyans
Autocannon, 2x Grenade launchers
95
Troops:
10x Vostroyans
Lascannon, 2x Grenade launcher
105
Troops:
10x Vostroyans
Lascannon, 2x Grenade launcher
105
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle tank (150)
150
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle tank
150
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Demolisher
Heavy bolters, Recovery gear
195
Total: 1000 points