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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2007 9:07:31 GMT -5
So basically, with the new Krieg lot now out, and the awesome new trench system they have, i decided to use some saved up money and get enough for a trench system. But i have no idea what sort of rules would be used, any ideas?
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 7, 2007 13:08:56 GMT -5
I'd go 5+ cover for the trenches, if an indirect round lands in the trench then no cover save as it's not a solid piece of cover like a forest is. the bunkers are 4+ I'd imagine.
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Post by Colonel Grammissar Azalar on Jun 7, 2007 13:29:58 GMT -5
Basically, since Trecnh system is like, close quaters combat, I would basically use them as Corridors, just they can get hit by Tank rounds and Atterlity.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2007 15:13:12 GMT -5
I agree with the idea of now cover save if a blast hits in, but the amount of body that you can aim at when someone is in the trench is so small i reckon it should have better then 5+, even rubble gives 4+ after all. I was mainly thinking about how to incorporate it in games, like allocate points values for certain lengths of trench, so the army using them would have less men because of it, to even things out. What you guys think?
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 7, 2007 23:55:21 GMT -5
sorry, I stand corrected - thanks col. asper for straightening me out on cover saves (!!!) buildings are 4+ - I would consider trenches 4+ since they're hard cover with enough room to hide in to make them better than a 5+ sloping hill. the pill boxes would be bunkers which are classed as that almighty 3+ cover save. disregard my first reply as brainfart material
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2007 4:37:13 GMT -5
No worries Did you have any thoughts on the points thing though? Cus you know the laser fense on forge world has points, i was thinking you could allocate points for each length of trench. what you think?
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 8, 2007 6:04:59 GMT -5
I'd just use it as terrain - good for campaign games & friendly games where your opponent is down to fight an entrenched guard army. other than that, possibly random tournament goodness, but yeah, ultimately, it's just guard friendly terrain in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2007 9:36:35 GMT -5
Makes sense. I was thinking about doin a campaign which i could use it in, only last time i ran a campaign loads of people signed up, but then it ran out of steem so quickly. i guess i'll just have to actually pick people that i know will play it. who knows, a cool trench system might encourage people to play
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 8, 2007 20:16:12 GMT -5
you could always just say 'if you're the defensive army in a scenario, you get the side with the trenches' (friendly house rule anyway)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2007 21:37:23 GMT -5
yeah...and the defender usually has the lesser amount of points...seeing that the defender has his trench/barbed wire/minefields and all...which makes the attacking player more comfortable knowing that theirs an advantage to him...which is that he has more points to slug it over across the field to his opponent in the trenches
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Post by thefishki345 on Jun 8, 2007 22:35:14 GMT -5
were are the rules for minefields?
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 9, 2007 4:30:01 GMT -5
you could use the rules for castellan mines in the whirlwind entry if you got really desperate and couldn't find the rules for mines anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2007 4:44:41 GMT -5
Or because i love the army list, use the booby trap entry in the old catachan rulebook, only they wouldnt be hidden in terrain, they could be hidden in the open. But my problem would be working out how many extra points to give the attacker. I was thinking atleast a few hundred, but what you guys reckon? Also, i just came up with this idea, so it could be pants, but how about allocating points to either side to buy that stuff. so like a 6inch length of trench is 30-50 points each, and you could buy barbed wire and stuff for certain points. Then the attacker could buy stuff like sweeper kits, smoke grenades...and thats all i could think of
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 9, 2007 8:25:23 GMT -5
I'm sure we could make house rules for it - kinda like cities of death but for battle fronts. two forces squared off with no-man's land in between.
so each player would have entrenchment points - a measure of how long the fight has been stalemated. entrenchment points can be spent for these things:
trenches, fortifications, and bunkers mine fields razor wire preliminary bombardment booby traps
I dunno, what else?
oh and good idea, being able to spend points to have stashes of offensive things like smoke grenades. sweeper kits kinda seem suicidal though, I wouldn't wanna be the guy who had to walk across no mans land looking for mines with the enemy in their trenches unloading on me! maybe mine-breaker mortar rounds - a special type of munition that explodes when it's only a few feet off the ground, but the explosion is a concussion blast to trigger mines to go off like they've been stepped on - that way you could clear a path thru no mans land where you thought there might be a mine field. oOo maybe your mortars with mine breaker shells could fire during the preliminary bombardment phase whether you took preliminary bombardment or not - that'd be cool and make them more useful without having to sit around and wait for a couple turns while you shelled minefields.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2007 10:52:32 GMT -5
That mortar mine field thing is sweet as. Im not sure about having both sides with trenches tho, first off i cant afford 2 trench systems and it would mean on the standard board that the trenches would be unrealistically close. The list of stuff u put for the trenches i thinks cool. so now what i want to do is come up with a seperate list for attackers, like the special mortar rounds and stuff. so then the defender picks what he wants, but then allows the attacker to pick the same amount of points to combat it.
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Post by The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) on Jun 9, 2007 15:42:51 GMT -5
hi lads, ive been gone a while. any1 miss me?
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 9, 2007 16:08:04 GMT -5
hmm...
preliminary bombardment would be on the attackers list mine breaker mortar rounds cratering rounds (put down crater terrain, deployed like deepstrike so that when you're charging you have some cover - i dunno, just a thought).
I'll think of more
oh, razorwire bridges (ladders you throw over razorwire so people can cross it) smoke grenades as you recommended - maybe this'd replace cratering rounds
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2007 22:46:41 GMT -5
scatter dice can be used to determine wind direction as for how the smoke disperses for cover save and stuff
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Post by Warmaster Stabwhiskers on Jun 9, 2007 22:55:16 GMT -5
It all boils down to stabbing your enemy in the guts, i like my whiskers!
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Post by thefishki345 on Jun 10, 2007 0:46:05 GMT -5
oook... stabby all you ever do is spam basically.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2007 3:05:53 GMT -5
nice ideas their. im gunu start writing the lists when i get a chance. the razor wire ladders and crater rounds are awesum. the only problem is, what if they dont have mortars. I got it, we could just say if they buy the rounds, its fired from somewhere off board. easy. wind direction for smoke grenades is gr8 too, cus then it could backfire on the enemy!
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Jun 10, 2007 5:31:22 GMT -5
why did wind direction for smoke grenades just remind me of something you'd find in rogue trader or 2nd edition 40k hehe. I'd just call it a 1 turn 5+ cover save for the squad. this'd keep with the current versions feel and style of being simple and quick ruleswise. the only thing I'd consider is adding something for conveying the 5+ cover save to any models that were taking fire behind the smoked squad. something like:
'smoke grenades: provides a 5+ cover save to the unit using them and any unit which is taking fire from an enemy unit firing thru the smoked unit. duration: 1 round'
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2007 6:35:58 GMT -5
orc bikers get that cover save also from the smoke, that might be what you are thinking of .
This whole bunker system from forge world is really cool but the Alpheon base( or whatever it is called) is tremendously expencive.I have thought about using it also but making my own bunker system.If you guyus ever hash out the points system on it maybe you could sticky it becouse i would like to have a quick reference to it. also, wasn't there points bases in the 3rd ed. rule book on bunkers and fortifications ?I don't have my 3rd ed. book handy but i seem to remember something like that in it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2007 6:42:03 GMT -5
I got the smoke idea from playing call of duty 2 with my mates at an internet cafe...we all lobbed smoke nades into an area and started firing 50 calibres and mg42's in hopes of killing any1....smoke was completely blinding us so we stopped and waded it out...then it was back to the killing...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2007 6:42:59 GMT -5
theres something about bunkers, but sadly nothing about trenches. i think smoke grenades would be better if they had a range of like 6 inches. and worked like ordanance, and anyone being shot through the cloud has a 5+ cover save (unmodified, cus you cant be skilled at hiding in smoke). So for defenders we have: 6" length of trench (including a corner if needed) 6" razor wire mine fields (theres rules for these already arent there?) perliminary bombardment (cus your bound to get shelled reaching enemy trench, right)
And for attackers: Smoke grenades wire ladders/cutters anti mine shells perliminary bombardment (from their own long rang guns)
what do we think?
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